Helicopter Crash

https://news.sky.com/story/leicester-city-owner-was-on-board-crashed-helicopter-11537872

I read on another site that all confirmed dead.

It's not the first and it won't be the last - it's time the damned things were banned altogether.

Agree! I'll go up in anything with wings but a helicopter, no chance.

I feel sorry for the families and loved ones of the crash victims.

Helicopters actually do have wings. They're just thin, on top of the plane, and go roundy-roundy-roundy really fast. Hopefully, anyway. It doesn't seem that they crash any more often than "regular", or fixed wing planes. Less, from what I seem to find. Fewer people die in a helicopter crash, too, as they generally carry fewer people at a time.

You're generally going slower when you impact during a crash, too. Auto-rotation works great. About 0 forward airspeed, low rate of descent, survivable, presuming an open area to touch down in.

SO: What's wrong with rotary winged aircraft? Seem safer than regular aircraft to me.

Of course, I didn't do any in-depth research on this. Number of deaths per hours flown would be interesting to see, for both types of aircraft.

Naturally, personal preferences are always entirely subjective, and everyone is free to have their own opinion.

Have fun, all!

Pat☺

Number of deaths per hours flown would be interesting to see, for both types of aircraft.

Yes, this is the type of stat you need.

Regardless what any stats may show, this is the reason behind my thinking. I once went up in a 172 with a friend who is a commercial pilot and instructor. We flew at 1,500ft over the city of Melbourne, Australia. We talked about aircraft failures and he challenged me to find some landing spots if the engine died while we were over the CBD. Even at 1,500ft over such a built up area, I could come up with 3-4 possible areas in a very short time. If the engine died while over the CBD I really think I would've remained totally calm. If I was doing the same thing in a helicopter and the engine was to die, I wouldn't be so calm. I know I'd likely be seconds away from saying good bye to the world myself.

There is a guy (Rupert) who goes in the screenshot forum a lot, I hope he sees this, he used to be a chopper pilot, he saw action too if I'm not mistaken.

Col.

There are quite a few wounded veterans that would give you quite an argument for the helicopter saving their lives during the Vietnam war and also the Stat copters that saves lives today.

I agree, but the damned things are damned high maintenance. In military or emergency services roles where high maintenance is available, the damned things are reasonably reliable - although a couple of years ago a police helicopter crashed into a packed pub in Glasgow city center and killed 14 people in the pub, while everyone in the helicopter survived. Where high maintenance isn't always available, i.e. private, business and corporate use, helicopters ought to be banned outright.

- although a couple of years ago a police helicopter crashed into a packed pub in Glasgow city center and killed 14 people in the pub, while everyone in the helicopter survived.

However, from what I understand, no beers were spilled

:D ;) :D

Sorry, couldn't resist...

Yes, SaR birds, ever regular troop carriers have saved countless lives. No questions about that. Having said that, I had one darn near take my head off one afternoon out on the flightline at MCAS Yuma, AZ.

I was working on something, NO idea what now, on a KFIR out on the end of VMFAT-401's flight line, right beside the taxi-way leading to the runway. I heard the SAR bird, hangared in the last hangar on the flightline, and not all that far from 401's planes, firing up. I stopped to watch for a moment, as I enjoy watching helicopters launch. It was a Huey, if it matters. Anyway, as soon as the engines were fired up, it took off and started down the taxi-way towords me. It started down the taxiway FAST. It's nose was so low the blades looked only a couple feet off the ground. The skids weren't very far up either.

I took one look, and jumped off the plane, and rolled under the fuselage. I really thought the blades were going to hit me. The SAR bird cranked tight around the corner to the runway, which was just past the plane I was now under, and started gaining altitude, on his way to a rescue.

Turns out, an F/A-18C from VMFA-333, who were at MCAS Yuma for WTI, the last squadron I was stationed in (VMFAT-401 used civilian maintenance techs), had crashed on the bombing range. The Range was Panel Stager I believe, but I may be wrong on that. We found out (we had a radio in our line shack for maintenance problems in the air) that there had been two on a bombing run, and one of the pilots, instead of turning WITH his wing-man, as briefed, had crossed OVER the wing-man. No quite far enough over, though. His wing-tip missile rail passed through the wing-man's canopy. And his head, sadly.

We were all lined up, watching, when the surviving moron...err...pilot taxied in off the runway, watching. You could see the damage, as it passed within a few feet of us. You could also see pieces of helmet, brains, and other bits of the dead pilot.

Turns out, this pilot, who was a known hot-dog, crossed over his wing-man because he said he thought it would look "cooler" to cross than both turn together coming up off the bombing run. He lost his wings for this one. They were considering giving him a court martial over it, but he weaseled out of that somehow. He did get kicked out of the Corps though, thankfully. You should hear what he used to do in Beaufort!

Anyway, I had really thought the blades were going to kill me. Scared the heck out of me, and I'm fearless! I still like helicopters, though :D

By the way, tiger1962, how do you feel about "things" like the MV-22 Osprey? Is it a plane? Yes. Is it a helicopter? Yes.

And what about the VTOL planes, like the Harrier, or F35B? They can do everything a helicopter can, but they're jets...

Just wondering :)

Have fun, all!

Hey Phantom, glad you survived that Huey encounter! The crew wouldn't have been expecting you to be where you were, or even looking for anyone there in that situation...

I once stepped out of the fire exit at work for a quick cig when I heard and then saw an Apache, fully armed, heading in my direction at tree-top height - as I watched it did a little shimmy and lowered it's nose directly at me and I must confess, I dropped my cig and thought "I've wasted my life!", before it turned sharp right and I could breathe again... I gave up smoking soon after that!

You're right of course, I should explain myself: I have no problem with VTOL aircraft, or even gyrocopters - apart from their tendency to chop off their own tail fins when leveling out from a climb - it's the frequency of tail rotor failures on helicopters which makes me wonder WHY they haven't been banned from civil aviation yet! It's clearly a design flaw and even though McDonnell-Douglas have developed a very good alternative: https://www.mdhelicopters.com/notar.html

the tail rotor is still in common use. Loss of transmission to the tail rotor while the main rotor is still under power is catastrophic in every case and fatal in most cases - I wonder how helicopters have avoided a ban from the civil register so far?

Fortunately r/c drones are now being used for aerial survey and photography work, which has removed a large percentage of the risk to lives on board and on the ground - if only because drones are a fraction of the cost of helicopters - but what the heck, a win's still a win, even when by default.

Hopefully the four-rotor drone layout will be scaled up to become a viable man-carrying transport in the future - at least with a rotor in each corner you can safely deploy emergency parachutes (Apollo capsule-style) in case of a power failure - without them getting tangled in the main rotor as you would in a helicopter...

I once stepped out of the fire exit at work for a quick cig when I heard and then saw an Apache, fully armed, heading in my direction at tree-top height - as I watched it did a little shimmy and lowered it's nose directly at me and I must confess, I dropped my cig and thought "I've wasted my life!", before it turned sharp right and I could breathe again... I gave up smoking soon after that!

LOL!!

Those Apache pilots get a big giggle out of doing that. I had one do that one afternoon as I was riding my motorcycle home from work. LONG straight-away, right through the middle of Yuma Proving Grounds. I looked up and here comes an Apache, straight ahead and low. I could even see the chin gun come round and lower to track me. Wide open, nowhere to hide, no ditches, nothing. I did all I could think of: I held up my left hand. Only used one finger to wave to them, though. Last great act of defiance, kind of thing :D

They obviously got a laugh out of it, because they both gave me a thumbs-up as they peeled off.

Stuff like that happens in Yuma all the time. Even the Border Patrol's killer egg (MD500) pilots do it. They fly around, up and down the river, looking for women sunbathing with, ummmm...less than a swimsuit on, shall we say? Back yards in the outlaying suburbs, too. Low, slow, and they use binoculars! Good views, they've told me, though ;)

Anywho, yes, I think the NOTAR is a fantastic idea. Same system as the Harrier uses. As long as the engine is running. But they can still auto-rotate if it fails, at least. Helicopters don't exactly glide like a fixed wing, but they can autorotate. Big part of the pilot training, matter of fact. So they can, often, at least not fall out of the sky like a stone.

As to why they've not been banned from civil aviation: Probably because most major corporations, whose higher-ups use a helicopter to take them places, can lobby effectively against banning them. Why go down to the basement, climb into a limo, and put up with city traffic, when they can just go up to the roof, climb into a helicopter that's nearly as well appointed as a limo, as avoid the city traffic entirely. They can have them take them to their mansion outside the city, or to other buildings for meetings, parties, etc. Better security for them too. Easier to secure the roof 200 stories up than the basement. The helicopter, too. They can fly it in, pick up the VIP, and fly away, quick and easy.

I don't KNOW, but I'll wager that all enters into why the FAA hasn't said no to the civil helicopter use. Just my opinion, though.

I have seen some human-carry sized things like the r/c drones demonstrated. Oddly enough, once demonstrated, they just fade away. Much like autos that run on fuel cells. 50 year old tech. We should, if fuel cell tech was permitted to advance the way PC tech, aircraft tech, and all the rest, save automotive tech, be running most of our equipment on water. Anything electric, including cars, drones etc etc.

It's been blocked, though. Like the Edsel. Bought out by the other companies an quashed. The politics of money and power. Existing companies don't want new stuff interfering with their profits off existing tech.

Again, never any proof. Just my opinion, once again.

Ok, shutting up now...

Have fun, all!

Pat☺

Great post Phantom, you echoed my thoughts. where is that thumbs up icon lol?

Funny only the other day I was in the park with one of my Grandkids and an air ambulance heli was coming in to land at the nearby hospital, you know the rest.

Tragically, another reason why I wouldn't get in a helicopter, and so soon after the last one:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/05/us/texas-newlyweds-helicopter-crash/index.html