Okay, my newly found love (i think) of flight

Okay, I have had this aircraft for a couple weeks now, it is really trying my patience with wheel landings. I could go the 3 point landings if I wasn't so damned stubborn, it's like breaking a "Bucking Bronco!" You got to hang in there, take your bumps and swallow your pride, you'll conquer it! I've had about 5-6 greaser wheel landings, out of "I can't remember how many attempts!" The bad landings have been awful to say the least. Let me show you my "devil" in sheep's clothing!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]205276[/ATTACH]

"Ain't she purdy?" Don't let her looks fool you! "She's a man-eater!"

[ATTACH=CONFIG]205277[/ATTACH]

There she goes, a "big tease!" Gets me so close to the runway, you'd think I could pull this off from this point, wouldn't you? Well sometimes I have, but don't let the 4"-6" more to the runway fool you! It can go downhill in a hurry! Anyway, I'm going to break this little sweetheart one way or the other! I will keep you all posted on my progress or demise! :rolleyes:

Rick :cool:

Rick~ I know there must the weight difference, but is landing this one not somewhat similar to landing a DC-3?

Anyway, nice looking aircraft. Stick with it and think positive--you'll get it!

Best of luck,

bushp04

Rick~ I know there must the weight difference, but is landing this one not somewhat similar to landing a DC-3?

Anyway, nice looking aircraft. Stick with it and think positive--you'll get it!

 

Best of luck,

bushp04

Bush - The DC3 is a "Piece of Cake" compared to this aircraft. I think it is a little more difficult, in that the nose is short and snubby, probably the CG is further back on it compared to other tail draggers. It is very sensitive when doing wheel landings! But, anyway, yes, I am sticking with her, I am not going down without a fight!

Thanks for the reply Bush! Rick :cool:

The setup is good, Charlie, I had to take timeout to take the pic. It probably would have turned out okay! I'm getting better, but it has taken a whole lot of patience! Practice makes perfect! Never had one this stubborn! One thing I noticed, the "old give the yoke a bump when the wheels touch down," doesn't work so well with this bird! It only accentuates the bounce even more so!

Thanks - Rick:cool:

The setup is good, Charlie, I had to take timeout to take the pic. It probably would have turned out okay! I'm getting better, but it has taken a whole lot of patience! Practice makes perfect! Never had one this stubborn! One thing I noticed, the "old give the yoke a bump when the wheels touch down," doesn't work so well with this bird! It only accentuates the bounce even more so!

 

Thanks - Rick:cool:

Beautiful bird Rick, and it's all about throttle management. :) But I'm no Guru, so I'm going to shut up.

Jim

Jim - Where's the new technique you were going to put on display?

############## Never mind, my friend, I just saw your new thread! It's beautiful, well layed out, I like it, are you happy with it? ######

Rick :cool:

Yep, you too, but you probably have been flying yours for awhile. I think I have figured this out, but, won't say anything until i am sure!

Rick :cool:

Hi! Fine plane, fine pics!

One thing about a plane behavior I always worries about with a new plane, is the aircraft.cfg file, a file usually at C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\SimObjects\Airplanes\the plane folder

Open that with a simple text editor like the one which comes with Windows (just check not to allow that editor be made the default for that kind of files) and the section of interest is the one like, with mostly the following items to tweak. That might also improve a plane's behavior at landing. Just a question of trying-testing

[flight_tuning]

…

elevator_effectiveness=1.0 // pass to something like 1.13 or maybe even decrease under 1.0

aileron_effectiveness=1.0 // to say 1.5

rudder_effectiveness=1.0 // to say 1.2

pitch_stability=1.0 // increase to about say 2.8

roll_stability=1.0 // increase to about idem

yaw_stability=1.0 // increase to about say 2.0

…

All what is stability is how the plane keeps in a attitude given with the commands (turn, climb, rudder, etc.) and effectiveness is how the commands work thence. And just keep the default values behind a double slash (that gets what is written there off FSX reading). There is also a possibility of settings with the command settings sensitivity in FSX self (I don't have the exact reference at the moment)

Usually one or both of that stabilizes the plane at acceptable values. And the other good idea is just to search with a search engine a video of that plane to get a idea of how it behaves in RW. For those old planes, that might be more difficult than for nowadays ones

Thanks Gerard. In looking at your settings above, what is "idem" for roll stability? Never heard of that?

Also, I think I have found the trick with this A/C!! I was being too gentle with her and she was acting up on those landings. I will continue practicing with what I found out last evening, and when I am sure that has fixed the problem, I will share with all! I do love this aircraft and want this to work!

Rick :cool:

what is "idem" for roll stability

means 'the same,' 'too,' 'also.' I used that because I thought you also told like in English :cool:

Hope you'll tune that plane finely :pilot:

means 'the same,' 'too,' 'also.' I used that because I thought you also told like in English :cool:

Hope you'll tune that plane finely :pilot:

Gerard - It's getting there, found a great article last night, gave me some tips on what to do in the landing process. I feel good about this, but, we shall see! Never had to put that much effort into, taming a tail dragger before! Yes, they are finicky, but aren't they all? This one, has tested me totally, but I won't give up that easily!

Rick :cool:

Bob - I just lost a long reply! Anyway, just last night, found an article that says you have to give the yoke a healthy push once the wheels touch down (they even said the plane will want to bounce on you) and all will be good! Tried it, viewing from an external view and it worked like a charm!

I have always landed taildraggers (real world and flight simming) this same method, but I would call my OLD technique a "bump", not a healthy push! I will be flying this later today, and have "high hopes" that this was the tip that I needed!

Thanks Bob for replying! - Rick :cool:

OK guys here it is. The easy way to make wheel landings. I am finally going to open my mouth and probably get clobbered for it, but here goes.

Forget about the "Bump" , and listen closely. First of all, you need to trim your aircraft for absolute level flight at your expected touchdown speed. Weather that be 80, 100, 120 knots, or whatever, make an educated guess at what it should be, and get it done on your approach. Now just control your sink rate down towards the runway as finely as possible, keeping the plane level with your joystick or yoke. Level, level, level, slowly sinking toward the runway. Now here it comes .... When the aircrafts wheels are about 4 inches off the runway; Drop the stick, and reduce the throttle slightly . Yes, drop the stick !, or yoke completely. If your aircraft has been trimmed for level flight at touchdown speed, it will just touchdown like a butterfly with sneakers on ...... Dropping the stick, eliminates any natural tendency to want to flare. Let it roll out on it's own with no elevator input, just tapping the rudder as needed, chop the throttle and you are home free. :)

If you are still bouncing, it may just be a case of too much lift. Try reducing your flap setting.

If that doesn't work, tell me about it, I am ready to ward off all blows. :mad:

Jim

Now, who is the one who doesn't understand? What do you mean by drop the stick? or does that mean just let go of it?

Jim - Check out my pics, the second pic shows the aircraft tires 4" - 6" off the runway, Like Mr Zippy says or anyone with common sense would say, from there just reduce your throttle a wee bit and let it settle to the runway. That should happen, but not this aircraft! That 4" of drop can give me a 3' bounce into the air. If I don't catch it soon enough with more throttle the second bounce can give me a 5' bounce into the air, and it progressively gets worse from there. I think for this bird I am going back to 3 point landings!

I wheel land my Cessna 185's, my DC-3, the Howard, the Harpoon all the same way, without this issue! Maybe the tires have 100 lbs psi in them, i have no clue! The p-51 is one aircraft I cannot attest to, as I have not spent that much time with it.

Do you have this aircraft loaded? I would love to have you try your technique of "drop the stick" just to see if it works for you!

No need to hurry, this one is going on the "back burner" for right now!

Rick

Larry - No doubting anything Jim or you are telling me. Something different about this particular download. After much frustration this afternoon, I took one of my Cessna 185 and did a perfect wheel landing with it. I also, tried another Beech D18S and did an ILS approach to RWY 36 Savannah GA and that also went without event! I did compare the aircraft.cfg files of both D18's and they almost look identical to one another! I did go in on AirED and checked the aircraft that has been giving me a fit and found one entry to be totally different than the other aircraft that flew just fine! Tonite, I will give my Sweetheart of an aircraft another try and see if anything has changed? All this fussing is not worth the aggravation of being able to say I can properly wheel land a Beech D18.

Thanks Larry for your input! I will let you and Jim know how tonites flight works out!

Rick :cool:

" Now, who is the one who doesn't understand? What do you mean by drop the stick? or does that mean just let go of it? - Rick"

Yes, let go of it completely. Now before anyone panics, understand this. You are only letting go of it for 4 or 5 seconds, with your hands positioned very close to it in order to get back on it quickly. After about 4 seconds, and you have amazed yourself with how perfect you are, you get back on the stick taking control again, reducing the throttle further, and kicking the rudder around. When you drop the stick at the 4 - 6" point, you are eliminating all chances of human error, but adequate forward speed must be maintained to prevent dropping too fast and bouncing. Trim it and trust it. :) Drop the stick.

Rick, I will take a look at that plane when I get some time. I have a hunch that the main gear may be mounted too far forward of the CG. ( or the CG is too far rearward ) That'll Bunny Hop your plane down the runway every time. :)

Cheers - Jim

Rick, detail that D-18 for me . Exactly where is that download located ?

Okay - 3 out of 3, no issues, I am satisfied. And I didn't even have to drop my stick either! LOL! I've never heard that one before, but I look forward to knowing more about what it means!

Anyway, thanks guys for your input! Looks like I'll be able to keep this queen! I'm even going to keep the second one, as maybe that was the "good luck charm" that I needed?

Rick :cool:

Okay, Jim, here is the link and it's on this site: fsx_d18s_n412k.zip

I think I have resolved my issue,. but I would still like for you to fly this bad boy/girl to see if it acts up for you? Let me know!

Thanks Jim! - Rick :cool:

Cheers - Jim

Rick, detail that D-18 for me . Exactly where is that download located ?

Okay, Jim, here is the link and it's on this site: fsx_d18s_n412k.zip

 

I think I have resolved my issue,. but I would still like for you to fly this bad boy/girl to see if it acts up for you? Let me know!

 

Thanks Jim! - Rick :cool:

 

Cheers - Jim

 

Rick, detail that D-18 for me . Exactly where is that download located ?

I'll give it a try tomorrow, also!

I'll give it a try tomorrow, also!

Thanks, Charlie, this one was giving me a fit over the runway. I went to Milton Shupe's original D18, file D18SVC4.zip and that flew without issue!

I compared both Aircraft.cfg sets and they were almost identical. I then went into the N412K AirEd file and found one entry that was a true/false entry,

Is this a taildragger? It was set as false. I changed it to true! Had my doubts that could make a difference but it certainly didn't hurt any. Both aircraft are flying fine now. Can I land without the slightest (by slightest, I mean inches) bounce? No, and I don't think I ever will be able to get this down without a few inches of bounce. BUT, the landings are now manageable! I just landed the P-51 at around 150+ KIAS and that will keep you on the edge of your seat! Didn't feel like it bounced at all. Can't take my eyes off that landing and still feel safe doing so.

Thanks Charlie and let me know how you do on the Beech 18. I asked Jim to also let me know!

Thanks - Rick :cool:

Well there is NOTHING wrong with Milton Shupe (et al) D18S (N412K). NOTHING. Not with the model (it's SPECTACULAR). Not with the FDEs (the 'tail dragger=false' in air is irrelevant). I landed it on main gear with tail wheel 1 foot off ground, then with tail wheel 4 ft off ground (level) at slow/fast speeds and - NO BOUNCE!!!. NO ISSUES whatsoever. So YOU must be doing something wrong (ie: PILOT ERRORs, Inexperience with tail-draggers, lack of flying skill, etc). I did not change anything and it takes off /flys /lands like a dream. Cheesh!

Chuck B

Napamule