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Wow..


kingnorris

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More like HOW? than Wow... thank God he didn't kill anyone else.

Tim Wright "The older I get, the better I was..."

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I got a news alert on my phone last night about this. My first and immediate thoughts were possible terrorism and how the Air Force would scramble several jets. Seeing the news this morning I see now what happened. Very sad situation. One has to wonder if he was a flight Simmer like us? He knew how to start the aircraft and take off.

 

I have always argued that our airports should take on a security approach much like that of the Ben Gurion airport in Israel.

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I have always argued that our airports should take on a security approach much like that of the Ben Gurion airport in Israel.

 

It's unlikely that the additional security measures at that airport would have prevented this incident. Yes security at Ben Gurion is strict, and is based around a ranking system which determines the level to which you will be searched and questioned when passing through there, but that's generally for passengers, not airside staff.

 

Some airports have some additional security on the ramps too, for example, airfield security can and often do check us out from time to time when we are working around aeroplanes at EGCC. Understandably, new workers on temporary passes get this a lot more than those with full passes, but we're all subject to it and various different passes of different grades will allow access to some areas and not others. There is more of this checking goes on around flights to and from certain destinations (I'm not gonna say which destinations, as that wouldn't help with security), but essentially when you're on the ramp, you could be checked at any time. We are also all tasked with making these checks ourselves too and are expected to challenge anyone who is not displaying an ID badge. We are always screened through numerous detection systems whenever we go airside, and our bags and such are x-rayed and scanned for traces of numerous substances, including explosives. We also have to use our ID passes and enter various key codes to gain access to parts of the airport too. There are additional full security scans of all our stuff which take place to enter certain parts of the airside part of the airport too (I'm not gonna say which bits of the airport that is either).

 

But none of those measures would necessarily detect someone with a mental problem who has the intent to do something like this, unless the person in question was really very obviously not well and acting strangely, in which case, obviously, they would likely be stopped.

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In the follow up reports, it seems no amount of security measures would’ve helped. This guy was a good employee, with no history of any kind to set off alarms. His own family and friends are all completely stunned.
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If it turns out that this guy as a flight simmer, with a model of the aircraft on his system, is there any concern here about the spotlight that will put on this hobby? Understandably, once said and done, the concern then moves onto about how this could happen again, except by terrorists. And if this guy was able to gain enough knowledge to do what he did just by flying a flight sim, then I can see this hobby coming under a lot of scrutiny, and possibly some regulation.

 

It's already happening in the radio control flying community. The rapid rise of drones and the potential danger they pose, has put a spotlight on recreational drone flying, and by extension, to the entire R/C hobby. There's already been testimony presented in Washington DC in favor of limiting radio control flying activity to approved locations only, and then under certain altitudes only.

 

So as the R/C hobby is feeling some heat due to activity it's related to - activity which also happens to enable terrorists - then I can only assume that the Flight Sim hobby will soon feel the same sort of pressure.

 

Thoughts?

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I've flown various fixed and rotary wing aircraft RW, albeit 45 years or more ago. I've also "flown" several versions of consumer computer based flight simmers. Other than possibly showing you what the dashboard should look like, I really don't see any worry about the average hobbyist simmer learning to be a terrorist with his home "cockpit."

 

But as automatic and GPS based as some of the very inexpensive drones are, those I do consider a concern! Especially now that Amazon and others are working with cargo carrying drones!! If a drone can be programmed to deliver a purchased package to any given doorstep using GPS and Google Maps, that could also be a thermo-nuclear, TNT, petroleum bomb, etc. package as well!!:eek::eek:

 

MAKE NO MISTAKE, I AM HUGELY A FAN OF MUCH HEAVIER REGULATION OF CONSUMER AND COMMERCIAL DRONES!!! AND I ALSO CONSIDER A SELF DRIVING AUTOMOBILE OR SEMI AS PART OF THAT SAME CONCERN!! A SELF DRIVING SEMI LOADED WITH HIGH POWERED BOMBS COULD DESTROY A CITY FAIRLY EASILY.

 

Having said that, I've also "flown" UPS simulators at KSDF. Those and others owned by probably every large airline in the world certainly could be a huge hazard if accessed by terrorists!! But the "self-driving vehicles sure have a much-much heavier payload capability and hugely higher public access than any other threat I've mentioned above.

Being an old chopper guy I usually fly low and slow.
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If it turns out that this guy as a flight simmer, with a model of the aircraft on his system, is there any concern here about the spotlight that will put on this hobby? Understandably, once said and done, the concern then moves onto about how this could happen again, except by terrorists. And if this guy was able to gain enough knowledge to do what he did just by flying a flight sim, then I can see this hobby coming under a lot of scrutiny, and possibly some regulation.

 

It's already happening in the radio control flying community. The rapid rise of drones and the potential danger they pose, has put a spotlight on recreational drone flying, and by extension, to the entire R/C hobby. There's already been testimony presented in Washington DC in favor of limiting radio control flying activity to approved locations only, and then under certain altitudes only.

 

So as the R/C hobby is feeling some heat due to activity it's related to - activity which also happens to enable terrorists - then I can only assume that the Flight Sim hobby will soon feel the same sort of pressure.

 

Thoughts?

 

There's more to the story than just what the news media is reporting. As far as this shedding a investigatory light on the flight sim community, I think all is well. The truth may or may not come out. It could really embarrassing and thus hidden from the public.

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Listening carefully to the ATC audio, I am now inclined to take the thief's comment that he had experience on "Video Games" literally; that is, to exclude flight simulation on the order of FSX/P3D or XPlane. There is a very popular video game called GTA5 that now includes simulation of airplane flight, but at a much lower, arcade level of realism. If you want to see what this looks like go over to Jeff Favigniano's website - he has some videos of flying various airliners around in GTA5.

 

This would explain some of his lack of knowledge about autopilots, pressurization and the like. And perhaps explain why, if I understand it correctly, the entire radio conversation took place on Ground Control frequency, which would of course have already been dialed in after the last flight.

 

And one audio clip has him telling the controller that he had thrown up all over, presumably after doing one of the more aggressive maneuvers. He seemed surprised by that.

 

Truth is, I always thought that 9/11 would have resulted in the end of study level sim add-ons. It is highly likely that 767 PIC, or whatever the current version was called back then, was a factor. Today, there are even YouTube tutorials at a very professional level covering just about every airliner operating currently, so a person might not even need access to a study level sim. GTA5 along with one of the tutorials might be just barely enough to get someone into the air.

 

I agree with JohnDoe that much of this is yet to be revealed, and one aspect of the current overall political situation is that there is no such thing as a slow news day - this story is already on page 3 and fading fast. The industry and ATC will decide what they need to do to keep unauthorized airplanes on the ground, and the public has no real need to know just how that will be done - only that it is being done successfully.

 

For me, the part I find most fascinating is how did he manage to get to the runway without being blocked by vehicles? All airports that size have one or more duty officers patrolling at all times in a vehicle of some sort.....

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For me, the part I find most fascinating is how did he manage to get to the runway without being blocked by vehicles? All airports that size have one or more duty officers patrolling at all times in a vehicle of some sort.....

 

His taxi was a relatively short one.

 

Those duty officers you speak of would only act when informed there was an issue.

 

As I understand it, nobody knew this was an unauthorized movement until he was lined up on the runway. Too late to do anything at that point.

 

peace,

the Bean

WWOD---What Would Opa Do? Farewell, my freind (sp)

 

Never argue with idiots.

They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

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If it turns out that this guy as a flight simmer, with a model of the aircraft on his system, is there any concern here about the spotlight that will put on this hobby? Understandably, once said and done, the concern then moves onto about how this could happen again, except by terrorists. And if this guy was able to gain enough knowledge to do what he did just by flying a flight sim, then I can see this hobby coming under a lot of scrutiny, and possibly some regulation.

 

It's already happening in the radio control flying community. The rapid rise of drones and the potential danger they pose, has put a spotlight on recreational drone flying, and by extension, to the entire R/C hobby. There's already been testimony presented in Washington DC in favor of limiting radio control flying activity to approved locations only, and then under certain altitudes only.

 

So as the R/C hobby is feeling some heat due to activity it's related to - activity which also happens to enable terrorists - then I can only assume that the Flight Sim hobby will soon feel the same sort of pressure.

 

Thoughts?

 

Couple of things.

 

The 9/11 hijackers used FS to help train for their acts. So FS was not under scrutiny then and may never be under scrutiny. That's like Congress outlawing Grand Thft Auto because of people stealing cars, or outlawing Call Of Duty or some other FPS/ secret operative game that teaches tactics, etc.

 

About drones. The mass commercial drones have in their on-board chip locations it won't fly. So if you're near an airport it shouldn't take off the ground or come near the field all based on GPS and that other Russian GPS system called GLONASS. But there are ways so I'm not going to talk about that. For the most part, the military, Homeland Security, the Secret Service and God knows who else have devised ways of taking done or disabling a drone. Much of that is probably classified.

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Future maintenance operations should perhaps use a tire lock like for cars. But then again you are relying on someone with internal privileges who has the clearance necessary like this fellow. It's a hard one to prevent it is. Anything else involves a lot of money, time and logistics and I don't think airports, cites and the paying customer is willing to fit the bill.

 

I remember several years ago a pretty smart young dude on the run from the law stole a plane (might have been a Cessna) and took off to crash land somewhere. I think it was Florida. He did survive though. It wasn't a suicide mission but only a method to run from the law. If I can remember right he also stole a boat as well.

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Here is a youtube video of the plane to ground conversations.

 

 

 

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