Landing

Hello, I'm having trouble with landing, in particular, lining up manually with the runway. How exactly do I line up visually with the runway and stay aligned? Also, sometimes it appears that I'm lined up, however, once I get close, I slowly veer of to one side of the runway, away from the centerline. Also, for whatever reason, when I land, I occasionally am not pointed at the runway heading, I am pointed diagonally instead. And when actually flying, it feels like I'm crabbing, rather than a straight in landing. Please help, and give some advice, thank you!

Well, if you're crabbing with wings actually level and little or no rudder applied then you have probably got a crosswind. But while you don't mention the aircraft type, whether you're using autocoordination or have rudder controls, or what view you're in, it's easy to interpret the view from a seat that's not on the centerline as being a crab. Optical illusions are common when you're learning.

 

One way to judge whether you're near the center line, even from quite a ways out, is to see if the runway appears to be pointing straight up (12 o'clock), rather than at even a slight angle, which would mean you're off the center line. As you get in close, you need to learn to adjust for parallax, an appearance of being off center when you're not, thus from the left seat it should appear that you'll touch down just left of center (how far left depends on the aircraft).

 

Keep in mind that once you are aligned with and closer to the runway, any left/right movement should be corrected by a slight change in bank angle, and any indication that the aircraft isn't perfectly straight with the runway should be corrected with rudder, perhaps requiring a change in bank angle because of the rudder application. So in a crosswind you'd be cross controlled (that is, opposite rudder from the aileron input).

 

One other factor is that some aircraft models in the sim (especially the default aircraft) have some handling problems and will often slide sideways for a bit after you level your wings from a turn (among other problems), so that might be a complicating factor.

 

In addition you might look at the Takeoff and Landing segment (perhaps others, too) of the Real Aviation Tutorials & FAQs forum below.

Thank you, that was very helpful. I'm mainly practicing in fsx with a C172. about how much do I adjust to avoid the illusion of being off center? Sometimes it seems that I am on the centerline, but as I get closer, it seems that I'm off. Also, when I try to correct, I feel like I'm not correcting enough, or I'm correcting too much. That's another problem that I need advice on. How much and how exactly do I adjust? Also, I am using a joystick and thrust quadrant without rudder pedals. I use the rudder controls by twisting the joystick.

Depending on your in-Sim settings, that will determine how much, or little, you need to adjust. Are you using "Free Flight" or any of the Missions for your practice? For C-172 landing practice I would recommend the fairly short Sitka Landing Mission.

 

If you are using a Free Flight from here to there, I would recommend doing a save of the last 10 minutes, or so, of your approach to the destination airport runway so you can run that over and over again for practice. That's what it takes....Practice, and a lot more of it.

I'm using free flight, and all my settings are set to realistic. I usually just do touch and goes, and when I turn from base leg to final, I end up either turning to early or too late. And THAT usually ends up making me make crazy corrections which make me unstable during landing. Any suggestions, point of reference, etc?

I'm using free flight, and all my settings are set to realistic. I usually just do touch and goes, and when I turn from base leg to final, I end up either turning to early or too late. And THAT usually ends up making me make crazy corrections which make me unstable during landing. Any suggestions, point of reference, etc?

 

Settings at realistic are fine but be aware your controls are more sensitive. There is also another Mission that uses the Piper J3 Cub and it practices a downwind to Base to final approach and landing. The C-172 can always be substituted in any Mission by placing a check mark in the "allow changes" box at the bottom of the Missions list.

 

If you are flying in the VC, then be sure to turn your head and look for references for doing your turns.

I'm using free flight, and all my settings are set to realistic. I usually just do touch and goes, and when I turn from base leg to final, I end up either turning to early or too late. And THAT usually ends up making me make crazy corrections which make me unstable during landing. Any suggestions, point of reference, etc?

 

farhan - It's hard for anybody to tell you what you are doing wrong. If you were taking flying lessons, the instructor sitting in the right seat next to you could easily tell you what you are doing wrong and what you need to do to improve on it. If you are learning this on your own, you have to be patient with each flight you take on. If it's touch and goes, make sure you are using the correct pattern altitudes, lay your headings out, scratch sheet of paper will suffice. Runway heading, crosswind heading, base leg heading and again final headings. Try flying the entire landing pattern without thoughts of landing and see if you can pick out landmarks either on the ground, distant landmarks for helping you establish your headings etc. Once you know that pattern inside and out, know what and where your landmarks are, then try some touch and goes! And, if needed, don't be afraid of turning a planned touch and go into a full stop landing, so that you might give yourself a few moments to regroup your thoughts on what just happened. You could also, complete the touch and go and when you get far out enough and stable, you can also hit the pause button to give yourself a few moments to think about what you are doing! The little Cessna 150 I learned on didn't have a pause button!! At times, i wish it had!

 

Most importantly, be light, yet positive with the controls of the aircraft. If you were plowing a field with a tractor, you would probably need to get a strong grip on that wheel to be able to control your movements. Doesn't work that way with an aircraft! Be light, yet positive! AND, if you make a mistake, don't get frustrated, it can only make the rest of your session that much more trying! Accept making early turns or late turns as simple mistakes only to be corrected on the next go around! This will all come together for you, just got to be patient!

 

Good luck and happy flying! - Rick :cool:

How much and how exactly do I adjust?

How, exactly, you ask? Whichever direction you want to make the plane's nose go, dip that side's wing down. Just a touch. Just a little. Just for a moment, a short period of time.

Don't use the rudder for a small little adjustment like that. The plane's nose will turn the direction of the low wing a little.

The "how much" part is purely experience. Every time you make such an adjustment, you will learn a little bit more about how much adjustment, how far the nose moves, is accomplished by just how much wing dip you do, how far the wingtip drops relative to the horizon, and how long you hold it. In that particular plane.

If I were you, and I'm not, I would make sure there is no crosswind for the early, learning phase you're going through.

 

I usually just do touch and goes, and when I turn from base leg to final, I end up either turning to early or too late. And THAT usually ends up making me make crazy corrections which make me unstable during landing. Any suggestions, point of reference, etc?

In a high-winged airplane, like the C172, you have a very nice, built in, set of references available. The wingtip for turns, your shoulder, yes your shoulder, or your point of view at any rate. The turn-n-bank (ball) indicator on the instrument panel.

Start your approach a few miles from the end of the runway you want to land at, about 4-5 miles in front of you, with the runway to your left about the end of the wingtip when at the pattern altitude, normally around 1,000' AGL, and your normal cruise airspeed. If I were you, and I'm not, as we established, I would save the flight right at this point. That way you can start your practice approaches at the same point in space every time. Makes the learning just a little easier, to constantly have the same parameter set ups when you start.

Another thing to consider: You do NOT want to start the approach with full fuel tanks. I would set it up with just 50% fuel in each tank.

This is your upwind leg. Cruise down the runway heading, slowing down to your first set of flaps' speed. When you've slowed down, drop the first set of flaps down.

When you reach a point where the take-off end of the runway is about 45° behind your shoulder, start making a standard rate turn to the left. Bank about 30°, and hold it there with the ailerons. Keep the "ball" centered, as with any turn. The mnemonic is "step on the ball". If it's too far left, in this case, add some more left rudder until it's centered. Turn 90° at the plane's standard rate, as shown on the turn-n-bank indicator, using ailerons and rudder, as you would in any normal turn. When you roll out of the turn, you will be on your crosswind leg. Travel at this new heading, 90° from the runway heading, until the end of the runway is about 45° behind you. Then a standard rate turn 90° to your left again. See a "pattern" here??

So, now you're on a reverse heading to the runway you want to land at, with the runway to your left around the end of the wingtip, like on your upwind leg. This is the downwind leg. Start descending to about 700' AGL, and at the same time slow to where you can add in the second stage of flaps. By the time the approach end of the runway is behind you about 45°, you should be about 700' AGL, and at the second stage flap speed, with 2 stages of flaps down. Again, make your standard rate turn 90° to the left, and descend to about 500' AGL. Travel this heading, speed, and altitude until the touchdown end of the runway is about 45° in front of your shoulder. About where the plane's windscreen and left side window meet. The vertical structural post there.

Make your 90° standard rate turn to the runway heading, and slow down to where you can add the third and final stage of flaps. When you roll out of your turn, you SHOULD be lined up with the runway, 500' AGL, at the final approach speed. This is now your Final Leg.

Use the small adjustments mentioned to zero in on the centerline of the runway and descend to the touchdown point. Like Mr. lnuss said above, try to keep the runway straight up and down in your front windscreen. Use the wing-dip method to make corrections.

Use the throttle to control you rate of decent, NOT pitch changes. Descending too slowly, in other words, you will land long down the runway? Decrease the throttle a little.

Try to keep the touchdown point you desire at the same place in your windscreen all the way down. You can place a little sticker of some kind, or even mark your monitor with a grease pencil, to show where the touchdown point should appear when you turn final. You can always wipe off grease pencil later, when you learn just where the touchdown point looks like it should be in your windscreen. If it starts moving UP the windscreen, increase your throttle a little.

Remember, the plane will NOT be "hands-off stable". It will constantly be changing in all three axes. It's up to you to make appropriate corrections to these changes. YOU make the plane go where you want, don't just sit and hope it stays correct. It won't :D

 

Does any of my incessant babbling help in any way? I hope so!

Remember, 90% of this whole affair is practice. Practice until you're sick and tired of making landings. Go do something else for a while, like practicing turns of different kinds, ascents and descents at a level attitude and constant airspeed, whatever. Or just go flying for the fun of it. No flight plan, no practices of any kind, just fun in the air.

Then, back to landings again. The more touch-n-goes, or "bounces" you do, the better you'll get. Even if you just go from point A to B, try to make the correct pattern and landing. Do a few bounces before the full stop landing. Every single landing you make will improve your abilities and will reinforce the different references in your brain.

 

And always, have fun!

Pat☺

Realism settings- p factor

has effect on steering.

Reducing thrust on landing reduces the effect and causes drift the other way.

See details by clicking 'Help' button in realism settings menu. Also look at what other settings do.

If it's touch and goes,

 

I've never been fond of touch and goes for a student, especially in the early stages. I've always felt they gain a lot by finishing the landing roll, then taxiing back to the start of the runway, giving them time to think about what they did right and what they did wrong, rather than going through the hurry-hurry-hurry procedures needed for a touch and go, where there's no time for contemplation.

 

Otherwise, Rick has some good comments, as does Pat, except that I'd save the flight at the beginning of the downwind leg (abeam the departure end of the runway), rather than miles out on an upwind.

Last, BUT NOT least......Do the Lessons in the Sim. You will get plenty sick and tired of that "lady" saying "You don't seem to be paying attention, you are distracted....Lesson over!":pilot:

 

Slight correction: I think it's Rod that handles the flying lessons and the wicked with of the west that is the Private Pilot's check ride instructor. ACK!:mad:

farhan - I was watching YouTube videos this evening, came across this one that I thought might be of interest to you!

 

 

Enjoy! - Rick :cool:

Hi farhan,

Don't try to land the aircraft on the center line. Land yourself on it. The C172 will be about 18 inches off but that's okay.

And incidentally it's not even necessary that you be looking straight forward while landing. I'm on the center line in each of these images.

 

 

 

 

Jim F.

Farhan,

a reference point, no problem. But what airport are you flying to? And what runway at that airport?

 

Also, to explain how to spot the reference point, what aircraft are you flying? And do you fly from the 3d cockpit or the 2d panel?

Use your GPS for a visual reference to augment your approach. Especially on base leg. All you need to do (and providing the airport has procedures in the GPS) enter it's ICAO airport code and select Proc and chose the runway or VOR/NDB approach. Hit the CLR button up to three times to clear clutter. You should see a magenta line extending from the runway. To the left in the GPS will say XTE I think it's called. That's the cross track error for that magenta line. Meaning, how far away you are from intercepting it. When you are on base leg and watch the cross track error, and at about . 40 miles from interception, watch the ILS needle. It will be at this point you need to bank for LOC line up. If the runway has no ILS, then you can start the turn at .40 miles intercept. Keep the runway between your legs or yoke as you see it in the Sim.

 

Once you get the hang of it you can practically fly blind. Well, I practically do all the time. LOL I fly a lot at night and some runways have no ILS. I use a fake so-called WAAS gauge in my F22. I have two of them actually. They can be found here in the library. Just search for WAAS. That will also help you to stay on center line.