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Thread: My default CRJ700 flies with a nose-down attitude

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrzippy View Post
    I just did a flight with the CRJ700 from KSFO-KPSP. Cruise altitude was at FTL330, KIAS at280, MACH=.78 and Ground Speed of 502 Knots. It does show slightly nose-down. I am using A/P.

    I found even sitting on the ground, the same nose-down angle.

    Attachment 203212
    Tube-liners aren't my forte! However I have noticed more that one aircraft flies straight and level with a nose down attitude. The one that I really noticed RW was the B-52, (BUFF) which you might have heard of, in the 1960's.

    During combat in Vietnam I saw several flights of BUFFS drop tons of bombs. To be honest, my first thought was this BUFF is going to crash!!

    Thankfully I was reassured by people with much more experience watching B-52s (BUFFS) than mine at that time. The B-52 (BUFF) in normal straight and level flight appears to have a nose-down attitude. It's not about to crash. Nor is it losing altitude. That's just the how it looks while flying!

    Does this apply to your concern? Since I haven't flown RW since 1968, I can't say. However, based upon my experiences not every plane in flight looks exactly as you have expected.

    Rupert

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    Klammath Falls, OR
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogdish View Post
    Some submarine movies always have the crew running forward when they need to make a fast dive to get away from the depth charges.

    I though maybe moving passengers rearward would nose the plane up a bit, but it didn't seem to have much of a noticeable effect.
    I just love submarine movies and books. I would never ever want to serve on one though. Those guys just impress the heck outta me.
    Stuck in a (relatively) small tube with the same guys for 6 months at a time would drive me buggy. Heck, I can't think of 10 people I could spend six months cooped up with. Not without going homicidal. That's why they impress me so much. They stay in that sub, and they don't try to kill one another. For six months!! IMPRESSIVE!!

    Anywho, those movies that show the people all rushing forward to aid the dive are accurate. For the WWII subs, anyway. Moving the crew for'ard like that helped the sub pitch down faster, since their underwater speed wasn't very high, and thus the diving planes didn't have the authority you'd think. Getting underwater fast was a sub's only defense against surface ships. The war-ships were generally faster than the subs, and had alot more, and more potent, armament. All it would take would be 1 hole in the wrong place at it was all over for the sub. If the sub could sneak up on them unseen, fine, a couple torpedoes and a few 5" deck gun rounds and the surface ship was gone.
    But that wasn't their main function. They were after any and all enemy cargo ships. THOSE hurt the enemy a lot more than loosing a war-ship did. The only time they'd hunt a war-ship is if it was for self-defense.

    Another thing: They weren't trying to change the sub's AOA. They were changing it's overall balance. A plane flies at a specific AOA at it's nominal cruise altitude and airspeed. Moving the passengers to the rear won't change that. It'll fly at the same AOA, it just might need a little more trim to accomplish that.
    Subs don't really HAVE an AOA the same way airplanes do. They are nominally kept on an even keel. They can go up, go down, turn, whatever, but they do it level. Generally.
    As I said, on the WWII subs, during what they called a crash dive, they would trim it nose down, but to help that, the spare, or un-occupied crew would all rush forward to help. Remember, on a crash dive, they would have gone to General Quarters (battle stations) as soon as the necessity for the crash dive was perceived. Thus EVERYbody had an assigned station, but some weren't "in use" during the beginning of the process. The WWII subs didn't have an as effective, nor as sophisticated, a trim system that the modern, nuclear powered subs do. Once the boat began to level at depth, the crew would return to their assigned General Quarters stations, to help the COB (Chief Of the Boat) trim the boat back to level.

    Planes may change attitude, but they cruise at a specific AOA. Moving weight around won't change that, although if you move the balance point too far from it's designed limits, you will have controllabilty problems. BIG ones. Subs don't have that problem to the extent planes do.

    Sorry for babbling. Like I said, I just love subs, and have studied them a bit. Including reading a number of books written by sub commanders and crewmen.
    Pat☺

    PS: Michael, as I recall, the designator BUFF means Big Ugly Friendly ummmm...errr...FELLOW. Yeah, Fellow. That's it...

    Pat☺
    Last edited by PhantomTweak; 05-18-2018 at 02:17 AM.

    Had a thought...then there was the smell of something burning, and sparks, and then a big fire, and then the lights went out! I guess I better not do that again!
    Sgt, USMC, 10 years proud service, Inactive reserve now

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    You are correct, angle of attack in planes does not depend on where the cargo/passenger is. It does take a different trim setting.
    (Too far back and you won't have enough trim available to keep the angle of attack correct, (and keep the plane airborne).)

    I didn't post that last night. Couldn't find the right words. Impressed by that wonderfully clear explanation you gave there PhantomTweak. Just perfect.
    Have a great day!

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomTweak View Post

    PS: Michael, as I recall, the designator BUFF means Big Ugly Friendly ummmm...errr...FELLOW. Yeah, Fellow. That's it...

    Pat☺
    Hey Pat, that's somewhat (not really) close. And that's the "handle" those who actually fly them chose. Think how that works out for the rest of us!!

    Say hi to Ms. Ghost as well!!

    Michael

  5. #25
    Join Date
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    Klammath Falls, OR
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    The lovely Ms. Ghost says "HI" back

    She wanted you to know, we were thinking of you on Derby Day. Were you there? Make a small fortune on the race? It was a great race, btw

    I am familiar with the BUFF acronym, but this being a family-type forum, I figured Fellow was a better choice of word than the actual one. I may be a former Marine, but I have that much control, at least

    Have fun, man!
    Pat☺

    Had a thought...then there was the smell of something burning, and sparks, and then a big fire, and then the lights went out! I guess I better not do that again!
    Sgt, USMC, 10 years proud service, Inactive reserve now

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