Default and Addon Scenery terminal building overlap

Hi all,

I have been struggling with this issue for a little while now but have normally been able to find a solution but I am really at a loss at the moment. From time to time when installing new add on scenery some airports default buildings remain overlapped with the addon on buildings.

Sometimes I have been able to resolve by ensuring the addon AFCAD is in its own scenery folder or raised priority in the library but I have just installed Flightbeam's KSFO and tried everything but the buildings still remain overlapped.

The only possible conflict I could have had was a Jetways and Terminals for ACOF for a lot of airports but I have removed that entire scenery from the library and FS completely to ensure their is no conflicts with that, but it appears to make no difference and the default terminals are still their.

Have attached a couple of screenshots showing. As I Said its happened at quite a few airports now and not just an isolated case (LGAV, LKPR, EHAM, EGKK, KMIA, China to name a few).

So just to recap their is no conflicting scenery for KSFO, no other AFCAD's (just the default stock). There seems to be alot of topics on similar issues but most suggesting their is conflicting scenery which to my knowledge I don't have. Wondering if the Jetways scenery area left a file behind somewhere that's causing this as its a few airports, but no idea where to look or how I would find?

The new SFO scenery is pretty much at the top of my scenery library too.

Any advice or suggestions appreciated?

Thanks

Nick

I have had this happen at many add on sceneries. To solve it I had to delete the default scenery. If you want to save the default scenery you can back it up to another folder outside of FS. That way if you need to put it back into FS you have it saved.

Edit Are you sure that scenery is for FS9? I went to their website and all I can find are sceneries for FSX and Prepar3D.?

All addon sceneries must have higher priorities in your FS9 scenery.cfg library, in other words, they must be physically situated above any default scenery entries, which all need to remain near the bottom of scenery.cfg listing. If this is the case, then your related addon Adcad files may also remain within each of your addon scenery folders.

Are you sure that your addon sceneries are all situated above the default ones and therefore automatically have lower numerical (priority) numbers ?

Regards

Hans

Hi

Thanks for your replies.

Yes the scenery is compatible with FS9 - the installer asks you if you want to install in FS9 or FSX.

With regards to scenery priority all add on sceneries are very high priority in the scenery library and above stock AFCAD's.

Nick

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Nick,

As a last resort you could search for, download and install a program called "ExcBuilderV2" or higher. When set up correctly you have the possibility of creating (partial) deletion rectangles for any default scenery objects which cause the types of problems you evidently have. Also for AG trees, etc, which can unexpectedly appear on e.g. addon runways.

I've been using this program for many years and the author's name is: Paavo Pihelgas who wrote it in 2003. The name of the executable is: ExcBuilderV2.exe.

Good luck

Hans

HSometimes I have been able to resolve by ensuring the addon AFCAD is in its own scenery folder or raised priority in the library but I have just installed Flightbeam's KSFO and tried everything but the buildings still remain overlapped.

This is a commercial product, if that is a problem it should surely have been fixed. Nobody should have to faff around fixing it. I would contact their support for advice - there may be an update available.

John

Yes agreed however as I mentioned it's not the first time this is happening when I have added new add on airports ( various airports, various scenery producers). I am in the process of pouring through the flightbeam forums and will send an email but because it's not the first time this has happened it suggests to me that it's maybe a "rouge" or stray file in my setup somewhere.

Most topics on the forums with similar issues mentioned ground scenery or terrain addons, but I have none of these purely scenery for airports.

Struggling with KSFO at least for now...[emoji848][emoji848]

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Nick,

 

As a last resort you could search for, download and install a program called "ExcBuilderV2" or higher. When set up correctly you have the possibility of creating (partial) deletion rectangles for any default scenery objects which cause the types of problems you evidently have. Also for AG trees, etc, which can unexpectedly appear on e.g. addon runways.

I've been using this program for many years and the author's name is: Paavo Pihelgas who wrote it in 2003. The name of the executable is: ExcBuilderV2.exe.

 

Good luck

Hans

Thanks Hans for your suggestion. I've heard of it so may give this ago!

N

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In all my very many simming years I've never heard of Afcad data or an Afcad file, somehow being able to influence the appearance of both default (airport) buildings and addon (airport) buildings, so that a visible mix of both becomes visible. Very strange indeed because under all normal conditions, any addon airport having a higher priority than the default version in it's APnnnnnn.bgl file, should supress that default one completely, including it's afcad data.

Eagerly awaiting a good explanation.

Hans

In all my very many simming years I've never heard of Afcad data or an Afcad file, somehow being able to influence the appearance of both default (airport) buildings and addon (airport) buildings, so that a visible mix of both becomes visible. Very strange indeed because under all normal conditions, any addon airport having a higher priority than the default version in it's APnnnnnn.bgl file, should supress that default one completely, including it's afcad data.

Eagerly awaiting a good explanation.

I don't think it is quite that simple. Any add-on will need an "exclude" created to remove default buildings, taxi signs and other miscellanea. Earlier sceneries would supply this as a separate file but the technology used to create more modern A&FD files can include that in those files.

So if the latter applied and the A&FD file has been modified without the exclude data being saved, there is every risk of this situation occurring. Nick has not suggested he has made any modifications, but it is possible some hasty changes were made by the developer before issue, creating this situation. Another possibility is that a separate exclude file may have been accidentally omitted from the download, or missed during the install process.

John

In all my very many simming years I've never heard of Afcad data or an Afcad file, somehow being able to influence the appearance of both default (airport) buildings and addon (airport) buildings, so that a visible mix of both becomes visible. Very strange indeed because under all normal conditions, any addon airport having a higher priority than the default version in it's APnnnnnn.bgl file, should supress that default one completely, including it's afcad data.

Eagerly awaiting a good explanation.

 

Hans

I didn't say that it did, I'm just addressing something the op put in his original post:

"So just to recap their is no conflicting scenery for KSFO, no other AFCAD's (just the default stock). There seems to be alot of topics on similar issues but most suggesting their is conflicting scenery which to my knowledge I don't have. Wondering if the Jetways scenery area left a file behind somewhere that's causing this as its a few airports, but no idea where to look or how I would find?"

Scanafd is one tool that could quickly tell if there might be conflicting scenery, but it's not fool proof as you could have a scenery without an afcad or an afcad without a scenery. but if you ran it and found you did have a duplicate afcad it could jog your memory to a scenery you had installed and forgot about.

John,

I suppose you could be correct but only in a very isolated case where a scenery developer has not completely tested his creation before posting it. Moreover, Nick writes that his problem has occurred with a number of his addon airports, which makes it highly likely that there is something structurally wrong in his FS9 setup or with his own installation procedures. Hence my "last resort" suggestion for using a separate program for deleting default scenery objects.

Regards

Hans, from behind the dikes in the Netherlands.

I suppose you could be correct but only in a very isolated case where a scenery developer has not completely tested his creation before posting it.

Back in the day it was quite common. Developers would exclude objects with their Scenery Complexity set to Normal, thereby missing objects that would appear when that slider was moved to the right.

As CPUs got faster these issues started showing up.

peace,

the Bean

Thanks guys for your posts.

Really interesting. I'm away from the PC for a few days but interesting what you mentioned John about newer sceneries not necessarily having exclude files.

I can't be 100% sure until back at the PC but I do sometimes look for more up to date or more recent AFD files and could have potentially put a different AFD with the scenery.

I didn't mention in my original post as could not be 100% but I was sure I installed the scenery one time and went to the airport and found everything ok which would almost backup the lines being suggested.

I'm thinking that I might have replaced the AFD supplied with the scenery to another third party one (possibly), which according to John's post above may have some bearing on the exclude parts of the scenery and install.

Will test a clean install of the scenery and just double check and revert.

Thanks again for all your posts so far.

Nick

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Hi Nick,

Coming in a bit late on this one but something else to consider.....

You stated that you have tested by removing all addon scenery... was this from the folder structure that you placed them.

IME this issue can be caused by not removing all of the associated files. Most scenery will only have files that are added to your selected location (i.e. for most users the default Addon Scenery folder) BUT some scenery packages will have you add an additional file (normally something named _ALT.bgl) into the default Scenery/World/Scenery folder. If this file is left behind when de-installing the main scenery files it can cause issues with the original default airport or other 'new' scenery files for the same location.

Another possible reason for the issue is that you have installed a 3rd party dedicated AI product (such as Traffic 360) - these products tend to get installed into their own folder structure within the siim and will often contain their own scenery.bgl files. Most of these files will be basic and, if viewed in an editor such as AFCAD or Airport Design Editor (ADE), only contain very basic 'taxi line only' routes but some can also contain objects including buildings and full taxiways etc..

Placing such products as low down the scenery list as possible, but above the sim default areas, will normally mean that other addons override them but occasionally the included .bgl file causes issues - this is normally manifested as AI aircraft taxying along routes where there is no taxiway in the current scenery being used but does occasionally cause other issues.

Hi all,

Thanks Longbreak - no such traffic programs here though and it's all manual installed so no conflict with a such programs.

A little update from me and it seems I was right and I had subbed the provided AFD file with a third party downloaded one. I guess the main reason for doing this is to have a more update and realistic parking setup at the airport as the provided one tends to be a little outdated.

So I switched back to the provided AFD and the default buildings disappear, so it would appear that some exclude file associated with the provided AFD file is the issue.

Can anyone suggest a work around or a solution so I am able to use downloaded AFD files rather than the one provided?

Cheers

Nick

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Yes, just put your modified file an a scenery layer that loads after the original one.

John

Nick,

You can never succesfully use Afcad data which was developed for another version of the same airport. The visible terminals, their placements, their related gate/parking positions, etc.etc. are simply not exactly the same and therefore not compatable. It will result in AI aircraft parking in strange positions not related to the visible buildings, their gates, etc. etc, some AI aircraft even (partially) parking inside the buildings themselves.

Hans

.....Can anyone suggest a work around or a solution so I am able to use downloaded AFD files rather than the one provided?..........

Hi Nick,

As pointed out by Hans (post #19) various issues can occur, especially if the creator has fully updated the scenery to take into account known issues regarding its actually location in the sim world versus the real world, updated building locations, etc

You could try editing the file to add the required excludes. There are a number of tools available to edit/create scenery and, whilst the learning curve can be steep to create a full airport, the addition of excludes is relatively easy.

The main dependency on the editing the airport is based around the original tool used to create it - the more common tools used is either a version of AFCAD (FS2004 only) or Airport Design Editor (ADE - FS2004 and FSX). Normally, an creator will include details of the tool(s) used in a readme but not always. Additionally, if the original creator has not changed the default naming convention you should be able to ID the tool used from the name of the main airport .bgl (i.e. the one that usually contains the main runway/taxiway layout) - it will be similar to these examples:

AFCAD: AFX_.bgl

ADE: _ADE.bgl or _ADE9.bgl (for FS2004) or _ADEX.bgl (for FSX).

When editing such files it is generally best to use the same tool that was used to create it. This is especially important with those created using AFCAD as, if you open it in ADE, it MAY lose some of the formatted features - but there are exceptions/occasions when you can safely use ADE, see further on.

Generally there are two types of excludes used - one that is a targeted area specific exclude used to remove default items in a specific or small area. The other is based on a larger area that is normally used to cover the whole airport area. The first only affects the targeted area whilst the other, as it implies, will affect the whole airport - this may cause other issues if the creator has purposely used other default objects in a correct location.

WRT to possible losing features - I am now solely an FSX user but actually use a lot of FS2004 scenery in it (mainly MAIW AI and associated scenery) and the main issue often found is that FSX default objects appear where they shouldn't. I use ADE to import/edit the airport scenery, including those created using AFCAD. I have set the tool to use an option enabled that compiles the various 'components' used to build the airport into separate .bgl files. I then add an exclude that covers the whole airport, re-compile the airport and then only copy the exclude .bgl file into the same location as the scenery. This normally resolves the issue and leaves any original AFCAD formatting in place. However, occasionally I have to use targeted excludes.

AFCAD: AFX_.bgl

AFCAD2 does not produce filenames like that. Its are AF2_.bgl

AFX (which you do not mention) does.

I suspect if AFX had been used to edit the original file this situation would not have arisen.

All filenames can be modified by anybody, so the name doesn't actually prove the originating software.

John

It's now become my opinion, judging by all the previous posts in this thread, that Nick has most probably opened the airport's ADE file via the old Afcad program, has maybe done some edits to it and has then re-compiled it via that same Afcad program. In this way he will certainly have lost a.o. all ADE taxiway signs and most probably any originally built in ADE default object excludes as well.

Hans

Hi all,

Thanks for your posts.

Just to clarify guys I was referring to a more updated AFD file which is built for the specific scenery I am using and not a different or default scenery.

I have been playing around and tonight did a clean install of the scenery which has restored normality. I think the issue is the AFD file that comes with the scenery is names "KSFO.bgl" so just presuming it's an AF2 file rather than an ADE file but maybe I'm wrong.... not sure how you can tell without the file name prefix (it's dated 2011)?

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Another day and seems to be solved..

Indeed it looks like the original AFD file was an AdE file with an exclusion zone which was not active in the other file I was trying to substitute.

It's been a while since I used ADE but thanks for the convo and the posts though as this has pointed me in the right direction!

Cheers

Nick

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