Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20

Thread: Hubris

  1. #1

    Default Hubris

    I am 74 years old, a retired engineer, have little computer programming savvy, passable Cessna172 FSX experience, and a pretty good sim control system--with Steam. Recently I hired a CFI in a real Cessna and did well. I have the hubris to try what got me interested in Flight Sim in the first place—carrier landings. I seek advice as to how to go about doing this. What airplane and what, if any, add-ons I need keeping in mind I need plug-n-play. I suppose I should start with learning how to fly the jet then go from there. What FSX jet? If you think I should scrub the idea, tell me. I’m a realist. Thanks for your advice and for reading my post.
    i7-7700k @ 4.2 Ghz, 16 GB DDR4/3000,2280 SSD M.2,Genome II Case,Nvidia GTX 1080 rear exhaust,Samsung 40" 4K UHD TV & 24" HP side monitor,Saitek pedals, Instrument Panel, trim wheel, CH Eclipse Yoke,FSX Steam,Windows 10 64 bit

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    San Francisco, California
    Posts
    16,054

    Default

    I'm sure Pat (Phantomtweak) will jump in with lots of help. To get you started, i used an F-14 made by Dino that was my first experience at carrier landing. I was using AICarriers to plant one of many carriers out in front of me to land on. You don't necessesarily need to be flying a jet. Most 3rd party military prop planes that can lower a tailhook will do nicely.

    Your steam fsx will have an fa-18 carrier landing Mission. Fly that for practice.
    Mr Zippy Sent from my keyboard using "Whackamole", NudgeAKey + 2 Fingers

    Emachines T3418 AMD 3400+ processor 2GHZ/256KB L2 Cashe 2Gig Ram 160Gig HDD NVidia GEForce 6100 GPU Running WinXP Home Can't believe it still works! Running FSX Standard with SP1 and SP2

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Memphis, TN.
    Posts
    1,480
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    I'll "second" mrzippy's suggestion (more or less)

    Search these forums for "carrier landings" or similar posts for lots of discussions and descriptions...

    Download Dino's T-45 trainer (it's what the Navy uses/used to initially train in carrier landings). You can download the latest version directly from Dino's site https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1V...ew?usp=sharing The advantage of the T-45 is the included pdf description of carrier landings: pattern, speed, procedures etc - very helpful. MS did not provide similar info for the F-18

    Then practice, practice, practice.

    If you really prefer the F-18, then you should get the improved version of the FSX Hornet from the FSDreamteam group: http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/ind...7011.html#msg1 This version fixes a number of issues with the original default model.

    If you set your AI shipping above 50% you should see the built-in AI carriers at their designated start locations or enroute when you are ready to land on a moving carrier. Look here(http://www.simtours.net/defaultaircraftcarrier.php) to locate FSX moving carriers.

    As mrzippy mentioned, the AICarriers2.Net program allows you to set up a moving carrier anywhere you want.

    If you'd like an enhanced version of the carrier with personnel and different A/C configurations on the deck get uss_nimitz_ike_version2.zip from the library. I've used this as a replacement for the default carrier for years.

    I have a short video of the T-45 landing on a moving USS Eisenhower (Goin' to the boat) in my YouTube videos via the link below.

    Hope this gets you many happy hours of 'controlled crashing' on moving decks...

    Loyd
    Hooked since FS4... now flying:
    self-built i7-4790 at 4 GHz; GA-Z97X mobo; GTX 970; 16GB gskill;
    quiet, fast and cool running.
    Win 7/64: 840 EVO OS; 840 EVO (500G) game drive;
    Win10/64: 850 EVO (500G) for OS and games
    A few Flightsim videos on YouTube at CanyonCorners

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Klammath Falls, OR
    Posts
    3,939

    Default

    Hiyas!
    Just a couple notes to somewhat amplify what Mr. Zippy (thanks for the recommendation! ) and Loyd were kind enough to post...
    First, I cannot recommend the FSDT F/A-18C v 17.1 (the latest release) more highly. Dino's T-45 is a nice stepping stone to flying the fast movers onto the boat, but the F/A-18 is the Cadillac of carrier landing planes. You might want to try some FCLP (Field Carrier Landing Practice) at a shore station, like Coupeville, right next door to Whidbey Island (A major training base). The real world pilots do hundreds, nay even thousands, of FCLPs before they are permitted near a carrier, and with good reason.
    By the way, the FSDT team who made the v17.1 are the same people that came up with the Acceleration F-18. They took that basic plane, and the improvements they've made to it are just incredible. Just saying, they know what they're doin!

    As Loyd said, definately go with Orion Lau's AICarriers.net, vice the original, Java based version. It uses far fewer computer resources, and is more stable, and reliable.

    Another nice little program to add to the carrier landing realism is vLSO, by FSDT's Paddles. He WAs an LSO, and he wrote a great program to provide them to the FSX carriers, including addons. You can find it HERE. There are a number of very nice FCLP scenery's on the same page, if you're interested. Just so you know, though, those AI LSO's are just like the real ones: Downright MEAN! Be warned, and don't get discouraged. Your first OK trap will be a great feeling.

    Remember, when dong traps on the boat, you can set it in motion with AICarriers, which provides 25Kts Wind Over the Deck (WOD), which is fine for the T-45, but 10Kts shy of the NATOPS required WOD for the Hornet. You can use the FSX included weather engine to provide the other 10 kt's, though. Just make sure it down the angle deck, not on the bow. There's about an 8° difference. So if the BRC (Base Recovery Course) or the course the boat is sailing, is 300°, you want to set the wind for 10Kts at 292°, which will also be the final course you will use to recover, or trap, aboard. You also want to make sure the plane is below 33,000 Lbs Gross Weight. You can dump fuel to accomplish this. There's a Fuel Dump switch on the left hand control panel. Or go up and do some maneuvers with the AB's lit. They will use fuel pretty quick!

    Any questions, I'll be happy to try an help. I am a HUGE fan of FSX's carriers, and landing there-on
    If you want, I can give yo a link to the real world's F/A-18A/B/C/D NATOPS. Or Google it. It's the Naval Aviator's bible. Learn it, know it, live it

    Have fun!
    Pat☺

    Had a thought...then there was the smell of something burning, and sparks, and then a big fire, and then the lights went out! I guess I better not do that again!
    Sgt, USMC, 10 years proud service, Inactive reserve now

  5. #5

    Default

    Pat, you mentioned FCLP, I have Miramar, Coupeville, Patuxent and Lemoore, and even though the "scenery" of the cables are there, they don't actually engage the tail hook. I have Arrestor Cables 2.6, is there any way any of these sites could be made to actively trap a plane? (Sorry to single you out, but you seem to be the "go to" guy for all things Navel oops Naval.. Terry

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simtech95209 View Post
    Pat, you mentioned FCLP, I have Miramar, Coupeville, Patuxent and Lemoore, and even though the "scenery" of the cables are there, they don't actually engage the tail hook. I have Arrestor Cables 2.6, is there any way any of these sites could be made to actively trap a plane? (Sorry to single you out, but you seem to be the "go to" guy for all things Navel oops Naval.. Terry
    Hi Terry,

    The arrestor cables on all these sceneries are emergency arrestor cables for troubled landings. The USN does not do any kind of arrested FCLP training. All FCLP are touch and go landings, colloquially called "bounces" by the folks involved.

    Hope this helps.

    "Gonna do the damage til the damage is done."
    -- Queens of the Stone Age

  7. #7

    Default

    Henrystreet, thank you for the clarification. That explains why Coupeville is so short. I would think the USN would at least have the pilot experience a real "arrested" landing before going shipboard. I doubt if the emergency arrestor force is as "aggressive" as the real shipboard trap. Thank you for the heads up. Terry

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Klammath Falls, OR
    Posts
    3,939

    Default

    He's right, FCLP's are T&G's, not full stops.

    As to shore station arresting gear, it depends on the station. Some have arresting gear similar to that onboard the boat, with it's equivalent stopping power, and at the other end of the spectrum are stations that have the pendants (the actual name for the cables) connected to old carrier anchor chains.
    NAS Millington, is one example. I used to go riding along a berm overlooking the runway with my girlfriends when I was there the first time. I got caught out in a thunderstorm one day while riding, and there was lightning striking the chains on one end of the runway. Heck of a light show, but a bit noisy. The horses were NOT happy about it either.

    Anyway, yes they can act as effectively as the arresting gear on the carrier. Some Air Force bases have arresting gear as well, but theirs are turned WAY down, compared to the Navy version, as Air Force planes aren't stressed to take an arrested landing like the Navel birds are

    One final note: DON'T FLARE for touchdown, whether on the boat or a shore stations. For pilots with conventional training, that's something very hard to learn. Navy pilots have it drilled into them from day one. I've been told by some Marine pilots I knew that the instructors would threaten them with a Courts Martial if the flared for landing. True or not, I can't say for certain. Pilots DO like to, ahem, stretch the truth, at times...
    Anywho, you don't flare because if you do, the angle of the plane, and thus the height of the hook off the deck, changes, and it may well skip the wires. Once you're established in the groove, and have your AOA right, HOLD it. Use power to vary descent rate, and ride it all the way to the ground/deck. You should hit the deck with a 700-800 FPM descent rate. Once your gear hits, give it the gun. If you make the trap, although in FCLP you obviously never will, fine, the gear will stop you. If not, you have the power set to go around. But leave the stick alone, other than lateral adjustments.
    The FSDT F/A-18 will set the trim to the correct value, 8.1°, automatically, to get the correct AOA. The FCS takes care of it, just as in the real world Hornets. Other planes, you need to manually trim to get the AOA right. It's critical to have the proper AOA, though. Vital.
    Each plane's NATOPS will have the proper AOA for the different weights of the plane.

    Now, go have fun! IMO, The "easiest" FCLP stations are Coupeville or El Centro, although the one the T-45's usually use, Meridian, MI, by Henry “uchi” Street, is very good, and recognized by the vLSO's, if you want them along for the ride. You can find it where Paddles blog page for vLSO is located. Personally, I think I annoyed Paddles at some time, and he added a "hate Pat" module to the program...

    Pat☺

    Had a thought...then there was the smell of something burning, and sparks, and then a big fire, and then the lights went out! I guess I better not do that again!
    Sgt, USMC, 10 years proud service, Inactive reserve now

  9. #9

    Default

    Pat, thank you enlightening us on the peculiarities of "Traps". I personally appreciate the explanation of the fixed AOA. As a RW pilot, it's taking some getting used to hitting the ground at 5-7 hundred feet per minute. You're right about the AF planes not strong enough for carrier traps. I've seen many AF planes hit the cables and are dragging it behind them for almost 1/8 mile. If they tried that on carrier cables, there would be many pieces left on the deck. Thank you for the info..

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by simtech95209 View Post
    Pat, thank you enlightening us on the peculiarities of "Traps". I personally appreciate the explanation of the fixed AOA. As a RW pilot, it's taking some getting used to hitting the ground at 5-7 hundred feet per minute. You're right about the AF planes not strong enough for carrier traps. I've seen many AF planes hit the cables and are dragging it behind them for almost 1/8 mile. If they tried that on carrier cables, there would be many pieces left on the deck. Thank you for the info..
    LOL!! You just named a huge issue comparing Naval Air to civilian or Air force air. Everyone else seems to think a wonderful flare and soft landing is the best there is. Whereas in the Navy and Marine Corps the training is to fly to the ground! As Pat said, if you don't you probably will miss the ship!

    Rupert

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •