Need to change turning radius for Jens B. Kristensen's Vickers Vernon

:)Hello,

I have installed Jens B. Kristensen vernon, file vernon_10.zip, available in this site.

I have given it an Autopilot, and brakes. Now I want to change its turning radius to as tight as possible. It is too wide.:mad:

Can anyone help please?

I also intend to do a repaint or two of the aircraft.

Nick

Are you using differential braking to make your turns? Add this info above your [contact points]:

//0 Class

//1 Longitudinal Position (feet)

//2 Lateral Position (feet)

//3 Vertical Position (feet)

//4 Impact Damage Threshold (Feet Per Minute)

//5 Brake Map (0=None, 1=Left, 2=Right)

//6 Wheel Radius (feet)

//7 Steer Angle (degrees)

//8 Static Compression (feet) (0 if rigid)

//9 Max/Static Compression Ratio

//10 Damping Ratio (0=Undamped, 1=Critically Damped)

//11 Extension Time (seconds)

//12 Retraction Time (seconds)

//13 Sound Type

//14 Airspeed limit for retraction (KIAS)

//15 Airspeed that gear gets damage at (KIAS)

The one marked in red is the number you want to adjust .

Just to clarify Mr. Zippy's advice, here's an example of the figure you need to edit on line 1 of the contact points:

point.0= 1, 20.948, 0.000, -11.100, 1181, 0, 1.000, 30.00, 0.250, 4.00, 1.00, 6.00, 6.00, 0, 180.0, 250.0

Thanks to both,

Will try what both of you advised and will get back to you.

Nick

That line indicates that it has a nose wheel (ie: 20.948). But since it is a tail dragger the number would then have to be Negative (ie: -20.948). For tail wheel you CAN make steering ratio 90.000 as opposed to 'only' 30.000.

The other thing is that the position of the main gear (ie: Lateral pos in cnt pts) will make a difference. If the front gear is too far forward or the tail wheel is too far to the rear that will also make a difference. I am downloading and will work on it to where it does donuts if you wish. Later.

Chuck B

Napamule

Well...it won't do doughnuts but it turns now. Best turning is at between 2 and 5 kts. It's a heavy 2 engine taildragger. Too much power (ie: 10 kts) and it wants to TAKE OFF, not turn. OK? OK!

[contact_points]

point.0=1, -30.360, 0.000, -2.000, 1500.000, 0, 0.5, 60.0, 0.100, 2.5, 1.000, 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0.0, 0.0

point.1=1, 0.900, -5.300, -6.550, 1600.000, 1, 1.6, 0.0, 0.404, 2.5, 0.686, 0.0, 0.0, 2, 0.0, 0.0

point.2=1, 0.900, 5.300, -6.550, 1600.000, 2, 1.6, 0.0, 0.404, 2.5, 0.682, 0.0, 0.0, 3, 0.0, 0.0

point.3=2, 8.100, 0.010, -3.200, 800.000, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 5, 0.0, 0.0

point.4=2, -4.000, -34.500, -1.000, 800.000, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 5, 0.0, 0.0

point.5=2, -4.000, 34.500, -1.000, 800.000, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 6, 0.0, 0.0

point.6=2, -4.000, -34.500, 9.400, 800.000, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 5, 0.0, 0.0

point.7=2, -4.000, 34.500, 9.400, 800.000, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 6, 0.0, 0.0

point.8=2, -34.000, 0.000, 5.000, 800.000, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 9, 0.0, 0.0

static_pitch=6.9965 //degrees (pitch when loaded on ground)

static_cg_height=6.155 //feet, altitude of CG when at rest on the ground

//

[fuel]

Center1 = 2.000, 0.000, 7.900, 8.000, 0.000

Center2 = -3.000, 0.000, -2.000, 150.000, 0.000

//Center2 = 0.000, 0.000, -2.000, 150.000, 0.000

fuel_type = 1

number_of_tank_selectors = 1

electric_pump=0

//

[brakes]

parking_brake = 0 //Parking brake available

toe_brakes_scale=0.650 //o=0.0 //Brake scalar

A little brake is ok. You don't need differential braking. You need to do s.l.o.w turning. Oh and I moved the Center2 gas tank back because with even the slightest braking it pitched forward onto it's nose. It (moving fuel tank) does not change the handling at all-flys good. I landed it at 42 kts. Enjoy.

Chuck B

Napamule

Mr Zippy,

I incorporated your text and now I have this:

//0 Class

//1 Longitudinal Position (feet)

//2 Lateral Position (feet)

//3 Vertical Position (feet)

//4 Impact Damage Threshold (Feet Per Minute)

//5 Brake Map (0=None, 1=Left, 2=Right)

//6 Wheel Radius (feet)

//7 Steer Angle (degrees) ;;; marked in red

//8 Static Compression (feet) (0 if rigid)

//9 Max/Static Compression Ratio

//10 Damping Ratio (0=Undamped, 1=Critically Damped)

//11 Extension Time (seconds)

//12 Retraction Time (seconds)

//13 Sound Type

//14 Airspeed limit for retraction (KIAS)

//15 Airspeed that gear gets damage at (KIAS)

;;;The one marked in red is the number you want to adjust .

[contact_points]

point.0=1, -30.360, 0.000, -2.000, 1500.000, 0, 0.5, 60.0, 0.100, 2.5, 1.000, 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0.0, 0.0

point.1=1, 0.900, -5.300, -6.550, 1600.000, 1, 1.6, 0.0, 0.404, 2.5, 0.686, 0.0, 0.0, 2, 0.0, 0.0

point.2=1, 0.900, 5.300, -6.550, 1600.000, 2, 1.6, 0.0, 0.404, 2.5, 0.682, 0.0, 0.0, 3, 0.0, 0.0

point.3=2, 8.100, 0.010, -3.200, 800.000, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 5, 0.0, 0.0

point.4=2, -4.000, -34.500, -1.000, 800.000, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 5, 0.0, 0.0

point.5=2, -4.000, 34.500, -1.000, 800.000, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 6, 0.0, 0.0

point.6=2, -4.000, -34.500, 9.400, 800.000, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 5, 0.0, 0.0

;;;;point.7=2, -4.000, 34.500, 9.400, 800.000, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 6, 0.0, 0.0

point.7=5, -4.000, 34.500, 9.400, 800.000, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 6, 0.0, 0.0

point.8=2, -34.000, 0.000, 5.000, 800.000, 0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.000, 0.0, 0.0, 9, 0.0, 0.0

static_pitch=6.9965 //degrees (pitch when loaded on ground)

static_cg_height=6.155 //feet, altitude of CG when at rest on the ground

//

I flew the a/c and landed and it seemed to turn ok on the ground when taxying ...

I changed to this:

point.7=5

Does the 7 just above affect the turning radius when taxying??

I want to know if the line above affects the Turning radius ON THE GROUND. If not, which entry affects turning radius on the ground?

Napamule: Many thanks.

I will soon be starting a repaint.

Nick

Nick, you is a bit confused, me thinks!

//0 Class

//1 Longitudinal Position (feet)

//2 Lateral Position (feet)

//3 Vertical Position (feet)

//4 Impact Damage Threshold (Feet Per Minute)

//5 Brake Map (0=None, 1=Left, 2=Right)

//6 Wheel Radius (feet)

//7 Steer Angle (degrees)

//8 Static Compression (feet) (0 if rigid)

//9 Max/Static Compression Ratio

//10 Damping Ratio (0=Undamped, 1=Critically Damped)

//11 Extension Time (seconds)

//12 Retraction Time (seconds)

//13 Sound Type

//14 Airspeed limit for retraction (KIAS)

//15 Airspeed that gear gets damage at (KIAS)

The one in RED does not refer to point.7= xxx, xxx, xxx, etc.

It refers to what tiger1962 showed you:

point.0= 1, 20.948, 0.000, -11.100, 1181, 0, 1.000, 30.00, 0.250, 4.00, 1.00, 6.00, 6.00, 0, 180.0, 250.0

It's the 8th element, separated by commas, of the point.0= line.

And tell him it wasn't you whose 'text' was of the improved contact points. (Hello...it was ME! hehe).

You changed line 7 to 'type 5' which is WATER RUDDER and has nothing to do with turning radius. And that 'rudder' is at the end of your right wing, 10 ft up (ie: useless even as a water rudder). You can remove all the 'Type 2' cnt pts (ie: 'scrapes') and leave only the 'Type 1' cnt pts (wheel) as the scrapes do not play any role in taxi or turning.

You have to be professional and just keep the speed down to between 2 and 5 kts while you are turning. One 'other' way of doing it is to go Full Throttle>Cut Throttle (back and forth) while making turn. Or another is to press F3 about 6 times, wait, then when you hear the roar of engines, hit F1 (Cut) to keep speed down below 5 kts. Then repeat (ie: press F3 ...etc).

Chuck B

Napmule

PS: 'Type 3' is NOT float, it is 'skid'. Floats are 'Type 4' cnt pts. So your 'legend' is wrong.

It is clear I understand nothing of all this. Apolologies...

Can one of you two (or both) post a whole text section similar to the one I posted so I can have tight turns on the ground please?

However, I must say one thing: The text I posted below works fine for me--I have tight turns on the ground and the plane flies okay.

I have also given it brakes and a parking brake that suit me fine.

What fascinates me is how you two guys gained your impressive knowledge of these parameters?

Tutorial somewhere or through trial and error?

If thru a tutorial, please post a link for me here.

Nick

Can one of you two (or both) post a whole text section similar to the one I posted so I can have tight turns on the ground please?

 

 

 

What fascinates me is how you two guys gained your impressive knowledge of these parameters?

Tutorial somewhere or through trial and error?

If thru a tutorial, please post a link for me here.

 

Nick

A hell of a lot of reading, Nick. Here and sites like AVSIM and SOH. Also the eagerness to help fellow simmers like yourself. Google is a good friend for finding answers even for questions I have no interest in, personally, but to learn and pass on to others.

Copy the [Contact points] by napamule2 in post #6.

Quote: '..so I can have tight turns on the ground please?'

The only thing you are going to be able to have is SLOW TURNS (by prudent management of throttle). No 'tight' turns at 20 kts (or 10 kts for that matter) are possible. The model does not have that 'capability'. It's big, it's heavy, and it's clumsy. It did not have brakes. It landed on grass fields (not pavement). It 'jamed' at 87 kts and landed at 45 kts. It is not a Cessna. So accept that limitation or go home.

Chuck B

Napamule

I hope I didn't sound 'angry'. Not my intention. I just want to firmly emphasise that this may be a 'beast' when it comes to handling but in other ways it's a fantastic job by Mr Christensen with the FDEs (dynamics). He MUST of put in a lot of hours of work on the cfg and air file to make this 'brick' work like he intended. Very interesting method(s). For example: (SAVE a copy of cfg first): cut the weight in half and the MOI's by 1/3 and see what happens. With positive pitch trim you can fly around at 45 kts because...he made the 'oswald_efficiency_factor=1.300' (ie: wing efficiency). I get more of a kick messing with FDEs than actually flying it. But that's just me. If you want to fly it at 180 kts, do aerobatic rolls, and 'make sharp turns' on taxi, to put into a video to show what a hot-shot you are then that ain't going to happen. If you do achieve that please post the changes here. I would like to see them (as if). Happy Flying (anyway).

Chuck B

Napamule

Thanks Napamule and Zippy...

Will do as advised.

I am also thinking of give the aircraft the airfile of DC-3 (suitably renamed), to make it fly faster--will report results here when I have tested that.

Nick

Ha Ha. The jokes on you. He already used the DC3 air file. Ask me how I know. It's the aircraft cfg that he did all the work on. You will be working on it until Easter. Ha. Have fun!

Chuck B

Napamule

PS: Sorry I mispelled Jan's name: it's Kristensen with a 'K' not a 'C'.

Asos,

Not back yet? What happened? Got lost? Need help (hehe). Just kidding. I have been doing this for 15 years so I don't expect you to learn it all in a day. I used the DC3 cfg and air file, just for fun, and it cruise at 220 kts yet lands at 58 kts. Turns on a dime. Made a video (link below).

Chuck B

Napamule

Link:

Napamule,

Saw your video-it sure turns on a dime--can you send me the two files please through https://www.filemail.com/

Sending you my regular email address through pm.

Nick

I have been making a fictional repaint of the Vernon. I may also weather it a little.

See screenshots here.