ai float plane "above" the water level

I am using the Premier Aircraft Design de Havilland turbo Otter as an ai plane, as I am making an Air Saguenay float base. I am not using their amphibious version of the Otter, which is where the Air Saguenay textures first appeared, I am using their earlier floats-only version. I transfered the textures over from the amphib and they work perfectly with the floats version. The float verson when used as a normal plane floats as one would expect, with most of the floats below the water line. Now, the problem. Used as an ai plane, when it starts to move it jumps up above the water line as if in "slew" mode, and taxies away like that across the water. Also, when I open a saved flight at the float base the ai plane is already above the water, and after I cycle through the views from the plane I am in at the dock, from spot through cockpit, virtual cockpit, tower, and back to spot, the ai plane then floats correctly. I have tested the same situation with other ai float planes and there is no problem so it is not scenery-related or a water level problem. Any ideas? Maybe some revision to the contact points? I have no ideas on how to change a plane setup.

To preempt the obvious suggestion, I should have mentioned that the reason I am using the float version and not the amphibious version, even though the textures are originally from the amphib plane, is that the amphib when used as ai lands "on" the water using its wheels.

There is only 1 ft difference between the wheels and floats. But I believe there is a limit as to how much you can adjust because of limitations presented by the model itself. Not the cnt pts. But I would try using type 3 (skids) for the gear (which are type 1) and see if that might work. I never tried this for an AI as I have never made AI, and surely not one out of an amphib. But, to me, this is a very interesting, but new, area to explore. I love cnt pts work.

Chuck B

Napamule

Edit: I suggested skids as the AI isn't going to land on any runway anyway, right? Only water?

1 foot is approximately the change I am seeing, but what I really don't understand is how the position relative to the water level can change within the plane set up when the only difference is the usage, which is external. I will look at the skid idea though, and at that area of the model.

As I expected, no difference with the ski setting. As the config file and everything else to do with the plane must be staying the same, the way ai works must somehow be overruling the config file.

Didn't work eh? I am not versed at modeling but Milton Shupe, over at SOH, might have the answer. Worth a shot. Good luck.

Chuck B

Napamule

SOH? Give me a clue at least!

SOH is Sim Outhouse: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/content.php

The PAD Turbo Otter floats version still has the wheels from the Amphib version in the contact points - you need to remove the first four points and re-number the rest from zero, then subtract 1 foot from the static_cg_height= entry.

That's it! Thanks a lot. Is there somewhere an explanation of the entries in a config file?

That's it! Thanks a lot. Is there somewhere an explanation of the entries in a config file?

 

The Aircraft Container SDK from MS (http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/resources/aircraft-container-sdk.29/)

Here you go. I already 'removed' the gear (with '//' in front of line) and re-numbered so this will work as Tiger1962 suggested. Did not try it. But if you want it to sink in deeper into water just increase the (negative) value. Ie: Is now: -7.800 . Deeper is: -7.900 . Reload ac to see changes.

 

//0 Class

//1 Longitudinal Position (feet)

//2 Lateral Position (feet)

//3 Vertical Position (feet)

//4 Impact Damage Threshold (Feet Per Minute)

//5 Brake Map (0=None, 1=Left, 2=Right)

//6 Wheel Radius (feet)

//7 Steer Angle (degrees)

//8 Static Compression (feet) (0 if rigid)

//9 Max/Static Compression Ratio

//10 Damping Ratio (0=Undamped, 1=Critically Damped)

//11 Extension Time (seconds)

//12 Retraction Time (seconds)

//13 Sound Type

 

 

[contact_points] //from DHC3A SHX RX AMPHIB

//GEAR below

//point.0 = 1, 14.40, -6.56, -8.70, 1600, 0, 1.40, 45.0, 0.3, 2.5, 0.80, 4.0, 4.0, 0, 175.0, 175.0

//point.1 = 1, 14.40, 6.56, -8.70, 1600, 0, 1.40, 45.0, 0.3, 2.5, 0.80, 4.0, 4.0, 1, 175.0, 175.0

//point.2 = 1, -3.55, -6.56, -8.80, 1600, 1, 1.50, 0.0, 0.4, 2.5, 0.80, 4.0, 4.0, 2, 175.0, 175.0

//point.3 = 1, -3.55, 6.56, -8.80, 1600, 2, 1.50, 0.0, 0.4, 2.5, 0.80, 4.0, 4.0, 3, 175.0, 175.0

//FLOATS below

point.0 = 4, 12.60, -5.60, -7.800, 1600, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.85, 2.5, 0.65, 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0.0, 0.0

point.1 = 4, 12.60, 5.60, -7.800, 1600, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.85, 2.5, 0.65, 0.0, 0.0, 1, 0.0, 0.0

point.2 = 4, -12.80, -5.60, -7.700, 1600, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.95, 2.5, 0.65, 0.0, 0.0, 2, 0.0, 0.0

point.3 = 4, -12.80, 5.60, -7.700, 1600, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.95, 2.5, 0.65, 0.0, 0.0, 3, 0.0, 0.0

//SCRAPES below

point.4 = 2, 0.00, -24.00, 3.50, 1800, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 5, 0.0, 0.0

point.5 = 2, 0.00, 24.00, 3.50, 1800, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 6, 0.0, 0.0

point.6 = 2, -22.60, 0.00, 1.20, 1800, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 9, 0.0, 0.0

point.7 = 2, 11.00, 0.00, 0.00, 1800, 0, 0.00, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0

//Water Rudder below

point.8 = 5, -13.60, -5.60, -6.60, 1600, 0, 0.00, 50.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.00, 1.0, 1.2, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0

point.9 = 5, -13.60, 5.60, -6.60, 1600, 0, 0.00, 50.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.00, 1.1, 1.5, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0

//water rudder vert orig 6.00

static_pitch = 1.000 //degrees, pitch when at rest on the ground (+=Up, -=Dn)

static_cg_height =7.00 //7.900 //feet, altitude of CG when at rest on the ground

max_number_of_points = 13

gear_system_type=1 //Hydraulic

Thanks to all, and napamule2 for that input though I had managed to fix it.

One more thing Roger. For best results (looks when loading) you might want to make the 'static_cg_height' about 0.200 more than the vertical position of floats. I notice the modeler changed it from '7.90' to '7.00'. Now this DOES NOT work like the floats vertical position. It's not related. But I found that setting it to '0.200' more than vertical position of floats results in the ac droping into the water as opposed to 'popping' out of the water (looks like a bounce as opposed to a 'settleing' into the water). Sometimes the modelers set static height wrong and when the ac loads it comes out of the ground which is wrong. But you can go too far and the ac will zoom off when it is too high off the ground (or water).

 

So going by floats vert pos of '7.8' and '7.7' the static cg height should be '8.0' (and NOT '7.0'). OK? OK!

Chuck B

Napamule

Roger, go to the library and get ai_float.zip

 

In it you will learn all you need to know about ai float planes.

 

peace,

the Bean

Well Mr Bean things have been improved for the 'looks' of floatplanes and amphibs since that 'Starter Kit' came out in 2004. Bill Lyons and Holger Sandmann are the authors so HOW CAN YOU GO WRONG? So do not listen to what others recommend - 'ai_float.zip' has to be the 'Bible' when it comes to the floatplanes and amphibs. It's ALL THERE. Don't change ANYTHING. You can't improve on PERFECTION.

Chuck B

Napamule

I agree. I got that float plane starter kit when I made Lake Hood.