Dual install of FSX

Hello.

I have just built a top end computer water cooled looking for 6 ghs on cpu. Dual boot W7andW10, I have two M2 pice evo drives each 232 gbs and want the best set up, there are several combinations, but want to get advantage of both drives,

So thinking maybe, Partitions, both OS on one pcie drive and both FSXs on the other Pcie drive plus a bit of sceanery airports only, say W7s FSX 80gbs, W10s FSX 80gbs and Airports about 60 gbs.

My flying is full IFR hence airports only. Need an installation expert advice, out there.

Thanks

Alan

Let me make 1 suggestion since you are stating that you fly IFR only and I'm assuming tubeliners as opposed to small GA aircraft at low altitudes. Check out freeware photoreal scenery such as Bluesky Scenery. It makes the areas much more bold as compared to default.

win1 on ssd1

2nd part-for win7

 

win10 on ssd2

second part on ssd2 for win10.

 

That makes the chance of loosing both OS installs because of an error in the partition info much smaller.

(for example when one ssd gets corrupted.)

 

It also makes it possible to unplug one ssd, and simply run the OS that's on the one that's still plugged in.

 

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the stor "better to install on separate drives" is well outdated. It used to be true for HDD's. It is not true for SSD's. THe framerates between separate drives and same ssd are the same. THe only difference is the speed with which the game starts when you start it. (waiting 13 seconds instead of 15 when you start the game.

Those 2 seconds are not worth setting up a complex install like you suggested. Just keep each OS on it's own ssd. And install fsx on win7 in a win7 partition, win7. And on win10 in a win10 partiton.

 

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You defifnitely do not install fsx only on win7 (on FSX's "own FSX drive") and that try o access that fsx install (and run it!) from win 10 as well. THat won't work.

 

Lets say you run fsx from win7 and add some scenery.

The scenery files are installed in the fsx folder,

the scenery.cfg on C/.../appdata/roaming/fsx is updated (on the win7 drive)

 

If you then would run fsx from win10...

the scenery files would be there,

but the scenery.cfg filke is unchanged, as that file is on a win7 folder, and has not been updated in the Win10 install folders.

 

Many more such issues. SO do not install fsx only once and then try to access it fro win7 one time, and from win 10 another time.

That would just be askling for trouble.

 

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Because there is no differenc in framerates, make the installs of the OS's as uncomplicated as possible, give Oeach OS it's own SSD.

(You can on that ssd make a second partiton, but access that also only when running the OS that is on the same SSD.)

 

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Yes, there are many many ways to set up drives. But far the best method is to set up as simple as possible. Chance of errors with dual OS installs is very high. So keep it simple.

 

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PS: make sure your fsx Edition licence allows having two installs at the same time. I think the Disk version does not, the Steam Edition may allow multiple installs. Not sure of that, so look into it.

(I haven't had a look at the disk licence in a while, and I don't have Steam fsx myself, but i thought there was a difference.)

Hello.

Thank you for your reply,

I am a retired jet pilot with about 30000 hours of flying behind me FSX is a very good training flight simulator, I have also spent over the years about the same amount of money on it , but I am not an FSX expert or computer expert and now 71 my brain is not as sharp as it was.

So for clarity, there is no performance gain in having W7 And Fsx on different SSD s

So Pcie drive one, with Windows 7 installed Plus a partition with FSX installed

Pcie drive 2, with Windows 10 installed plus partition with FSX install

 

I have had the disc version of FSX installed on at least 5 computer before, my Licence has been OK, can,t remember at the moment how, but I just had one separate scenery install and all read to each of the computer via the network.

So it can be multible installations of sceanery with each FSX or one stand alone install.

Do you agree with this.

I like the words keep it simple, As that was my way of flying four engine jets, it worked for me.

So on these drives, is it Windows plus a FSX folder, or Windows and an FSX partition

Look forward to your comments

 

Alan

You are over complicating this based on what I gather from your first post. For one, you can't have multiple installs of FSX and use just one thinking you'll get some kind of performance gain. Two, partitions aren't going to increase performance one bit. Back in the day it was common to do so and had to be done since Windows 98se for example couldn't see large HDD capacities. So people would partition the drive into multiple sections.

 

Your M.2 Evo drives are going to be as fast as you can get minus a RAM drive. Due note that FSX is largely CPU driven. No matter how fast your HDD is, it won't mean all that much in terms of performance. You could install FSX in a Ryzen build on a SATA III platter and still get the same performance if you installed it to a M.2 Evo. Your boot times won't even change. Believe me. It's the CPU that loads all of your AI A/C and what you have in your virtual hanger.

 

What I would do is install FSX into Windows 7, unless you prefer 10. Use the second Evo for scenery. When you install scenery you can say where it's installed to and in fact you can edit the scenery.cfg to dictate where it's located at. That might help a little bit in the performance department. But to make life easier, and since you have Evo M.2's. I would just install the whole enchilada on the one drive and dedicate that one drive to FSX only. Use the second M.2 for other games, programs, music, etc. Basically a scratch disk in a way.

 

On the subject of liquid cooling, it's really all trivial. I bet I can get the same temps as liquid cooling as my Cooler Master Evo 212 on air. When I game in FSX for about an hour my Temps reach about 43C. As soon as I close FS, my temps drop immediately to about 28C. For me personally, liquid cooling is a little ify. I don't want water near my parts in case of a leak, regardless of warranties and all this crap. Especially when I know I can come within a few degrees on air instead. Plus the price just isn't worth it. But each to their own I guess.

 

 

To summarize: Install FSX on one M.2. Use Win 7 or 10 on one M.2. Use the second M.2 for other data. That way you can dedicate one M.2 to FSX only.

I would not make partitions.

ssd1--win7, fsx installed.

ssd2--win10 fsx installed.

 

You could:

ssd1-part1-win7

ssd1-part2-fsx

ssd2-part1-win10

ssd2-part2--fsx

(if the licence allows that, or if you have two licences.)

But as fsx on a separat disk, or on a seperate partition, is not going to make any performance difference, I would not make partitions at all. 232 gbs is really not that much. No need to make partitions.)

 

Performance increase from fsx on a second HDD was in the time of mechenical harddisks.

Not true for SSD's.

Just do:

ssd1--win7, fsx installed.

ssd2--win10 fsx installed.

and you're done.

 

Then add a HDD for data. THat you could devide into partitions. One HDD partition for you to store data on when using win7.

One HDD partition to store data on when you are using win10.

 

When running win7, don't save stuff on the win10 SSD or HDD partition.

 

When running win10, don't save stuff on the win7 SSD or HDD partition.

 

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(If 71 I would probably just choose 1 OS and be done with it. Makes life a lot less complicated.)

Adding:

 

WHen you start Win7, you will

Lets say you do:

first ssd=win7

2nd ssd is win10

HDD first partition = data for win7

HDD second partition = data for win10.

 

In that case when you start Windows 7 you will:

See win7 drive as C

the drive win10 is on will be D

THe HDD drive E will be win7 data

HDD drive F will be the Data drive for WIn10.

(And you will need to only access drive C and drive E when working using WIn7)

 

In that case when you start Windows 10 you will:

See win10 drive as C!!

the drive win7 is on will be D!!

The HDD drive E will be win7 data

HDD drive F will be the Data drive for WIn10.

(And you will need to only access drive C and drive F when working using WIn7)

 

Confusing eh?! When running WIn7, the C drive holds Win7 and the D drive holds the WIn10 system files and program folders. You will be working with drive C and drive E.

 

But when running Win10, the drive with the Win 10 system files and program folders will be called C.

And you will be using drive C and drive F.

 

Confused yet? I know I am!

 

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In the olden days....

I had 2 80GB HDD's and tried:

HDD1 (2 partitions).

C:\Windows

D:\ Data

HDD2 (about 8 partitions I think (Linux made those for me).

With Linux (or actually FreeBSD) installed.

 

Very complicated. I quickly noticed that if I was running Linux, and copied a file to my Windows Data drive while running Linux, Windows did not like it. It had a "Where the Heck did that file come from?" attitude. When rebooting, starting WIndows, and accessing the file I would get: "You are not the owner of this file". After all, the file had not been saved there while I was logged in as user on Windows.

The best way to copy a file to a WIndows partition when running Linux or FreeBSD was to put it on a USB-thumbdrive, shut down the PC, reboot the pc and this time let it boot into Windows, and then copy the file from the thumbdrive to a Windows partiton. (Often only to realise I needed another file, and having to shut down, reboot into Linux, and have to do the whole exercise again.

That was cute at first, but it grew old very fast!!

 

You'd think perhaps, that won't happen often.

But when using linuix, you could for example use firefox and browse this forum. I would read about an addon, download it, only to realise fsx was on the Windows partitions. And having to 'do the dance'.

You tend to forget what OS you are working in. Woul dprobably be worse when using Two WIndows versions that can (be made to) look very much alike in look and feel.

Tell us why you are thinking of a dual install setup.

 

Just for fun?

 

Want two OS's so you can run older software but don't want two spend money on two computers?

 

Or is two computers an option? (because you have one and a half already for example)

(Maybe just don't have room on the desk for two computers.)

 

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If two computers is an option, but two monitors would be too much on the desk....

...be aware that clever devices exist that make it possible to attach two computers to one monitor.

 

They are called KVM switches. (stands for: Keyboard, Visual, Mouse. (I think))

 

They are a basically a sort of wiring loom.

3 ends with 3 cables each, and a little box where they all meet.

 

keyb, monitor, mouse

||

||

box---pc 1

||

||

pc2

 

 

You connect your monitor, mouse, and keyboard to the box.

You connect cable set 1 from the box (monitor keyboard and Mouse cable), to the ports on pc1.

You connect cable set 2 from the box (monitor keyboard and Mouse cable), to the ports on pc2.

 

On the box is a switch. You have both pc's running. You flick the switch on the little box to "1" and you see pc1 on the monitor, and use the keyboard and mouse with it as well.

Flick it to "2" and using the same keyboard, monitor, and mouse, no reconnecting, you now use computer 2.

 

Here's a few examples.

(You may need a wired keyboard and mouse. I don't think you can connect a wireless mouse/keyboard to a KVM switch box.)

Examples on Newegg site:

https://www.newegg.com/KVM-Switches/SubCategory/ID-143/Page-2?Tpk=KVM%20switch&PageSize=36&order=BESTMATCH

 

(I hadn't expected it, but it seems many are sold with out the cables. You then buy those separate.

I have an oldie that's like the one I described.)

(Actually, come to think of it, the one I have does not have a phisical switch (button) but you have to press a keyboard combination (Contr+Alt+Shift+1) to switch from pc1 to pc2)

 

Something to consider perhaps?:)

Hello All.

Well I am an old (71) junior member of this forum, I have ever been a FSX expert and have forgot a lot about FSX, but at 71 I still fly and maintain my home built Europa with Rotax turbo 914 engine did a 500 mile round trip last week one way at FL 95 and the other at 2000ft, 71 is a horrible number and I don,t like looking at it, but I still feel I can do the work of two me. But I am frieghtend of dying.

I have four computer, and one laptop all have the same install of FSX from the same disc.

My four computers are or where in a networked Runing Fsx on one computer networking othe add ons on the other, the display in made up of 12 monitors,

3 x 24" showing the out side cockpit view,

3x24". Showing the virtual instrument panel

2 one each side for along wing view

1 overhead for overhead switch display

3 for add ons, FS Commander, Appolow Maps , Sim ? , etc, etc,

I have got to get it all up and running again before winter.

 

One this new build I have cpu of 5.5 ghs, and want 6. I feel that water cooling will help get this.

I want a duel boot, as I have a windows 10 OS I'm not a windows 10 fan, but maybe it will be better than 7 maybe?.

I am going with your recommendation

W7 plus FSX on one M2 drive No Partitioning

W10 plus FSX on the other M2 drive, No Partitioning

 

I have four Seagate HHD each of 500 gbs also standing idle.

Will probably use 2 of these for Sceanery, and maybe the other to in Raid for back up.

 

As far as I can remember I can point any install of FSX towards my one lot of sceanery.

Check this out please.

 

I do not use my computers for anything else, just all devoted to flight simulators.

I reckon I will be have more trouble later, as all my hardware is USB 1.1 or 2

My flight console is PFA cost a big chunk, and that was serial port, converted to USB

This beast is USB 3.1 with only a couple of USB 2 ,

And I have about 25 to 30 USBs to connect up.

 

But I will have a go this Thursday a try to get the M2 drives loaded up.

 

Thanks so much

Alan

Retired ATPL

Hello All.

Just an update for those interested, I still have not managed to get my OS installed.

Windows 7 will not install, it has no on board drivers for the M2 drives, and Samsung don,t provide a driver,

I have spent days on google, used Wix Dark, Reverse Engingeering trying to open a container and extract components build driver but failed.

The older OS must be loaded first so as to boot, but the latest motherboard does not provide backward compatibility for Windows 7,

Basically it will only see the DVD will call for drivers which are not available, you have to do loads of downloading, making dvds and loads of Command line inputs, it's a nightmare.

Have emailed Samsung, have instructions but again lots of Command lines, and some cloning.

Why can't there provide a driver, because 7 is old hat.

Now stuck with this intrusive and over complicated to get into windows10

Alan

The M.2 driver should be at the motherboard's website. The hard drive manufacturer won't have that.

It could be that updating the bios makes the drive show. (probably depends on what mainboard and drive, but worth looking in to.)

(Be aware bios updates are risky.)

 

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-2884130/build-find-drive.html

Hi.

The motherboard is a Asus Maxuimus ix Extreme with a onboard water cooling built into the board, it comes with a USB stick with all the driver on it.

The problem is Windows 7 does not support M2 Pcie drivers , the Samsung 960 evo Pcie SSD

Can not be seem, Samsung want you to use Windows 10 , Microsoft want you to use Windows 10, hence the problem,

It can be done but it's very complex, to get windows 7 and the 960 evo working.

I have not managed it yet,

I now have a set of instructions from Samsung on how to do it.

Not sure whether other SSD manufacturers provide drivers for W7

Alan

Google lots of info on the problem,

Aain, have a look at updating to the latest BIOS.

(Most mainboards do not come with the latest BIOS installed when you buy them.)

 

Read the article here called:

[ASUS] (PR) ASUS Announces All X99 and Z97 Motherboards Support NVM Express Devices

 

(I think it's the 6th or 7th down the page.)

It looks promising I think.

As mentioned previously, the problem isn't with the M2 drives themselves but the drive controller on the motherboard. Windows 7 doesn't have PCIe NVM support built in so you either need to install the drivers, or use a version of Windows that has support already included.

 

There are guides on how to do this, though they will take some effort to follow.

 

http://winaero.com/blog/how-to-install-windows-7-on-a-pci-express-nvme-ssd/

 

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/2990941/update-to-add-native-driver-support-in-nvm-express-in-windows-7-and-wi

 

Another option is to install Windows 7 on a regular hard drive or SATA SSD, install the patches that add support for NVMe drives, and then clone the Windows 7 install over to the M2 SSD.

The link i have in last post mentions NVM support.

 

No idea what that is, but I searched his specific board and found this latest bios adds NVM support for it.

It's a new standard to better support SSD drives as SATA ports aren't fast enough.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NVM_Express

 

Being a new standard, Windows 7 install discs don't come with the necessary drivers to support installing to PCIe NVMe drives. Much like Windows XP doesn't have SATA support built-in and required the user to load the proper drivers when installing.

 

In this case the motherboard supports NVMe drives, but only Windows 8.1 and above come with the required drivers. There are drivers for Windows 7, however they can only be installed after Windows 7 has already been installed. Or the user has to follow a guide like the one I posted to add the drivers into an install disc.

 

I have a similar Asus Z270 board and they already include NVM support, so I don't think a BIOS update is going to help. The problem really is Windows 7 is older than the NVME standard and doesn't come with support built-in.

 

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/ROG-MAXIMUS-IX-EXTREME/

Thank you,

I had read about Windows7 requiring a driver. But didn't know how to help with that.

 

But I still think that bios is also worth looking at.

My though is. Yes, it needs the Win7 driver... Or the "use an Image" method.... but NVM support

needs to be there as well.

It's at least worth checkig if the installled Bios suports that on his board.

 

 

But, I did make an error too.

I googled his mainboard type, found the ASUS website, and clicked on the "support and drivers" link for that mainboard.

There I checked the BIOS updates. I read their description. last vrsion was 1009.

 

Then I googled: Asus Maxuimus ix Extreme bios version 1009 "m2 drives"

And found the link I gave.

 

Only now did I see his board is not specifically metioned there.

Maybe his board comes with that support already.

 

Thanks again, I'll get out of this now.

Yes, the Asus Z270 series all come with NVMe support as mentioned in the product page. Nothing in the BIOS notes says anything about adding M2 or NVMe support. One of the previous BIOS versions fixed an issue with M.2 drives from Plextor.

 

Something else to note with these boards in that the latest Intel Kaby Lake CPUs are only supported under Windows 10.

 

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/03/microsoft-is-getting-ready-to-block-windows-updates-for-old-windows-on-new-chips/

 

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4012982/the-processor-is-not-supported-together-with-the-windows-version-that