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P3D v1.4 vs. 2.5+ is there much advantage in the later?


b3burner

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I'm curious about this P3D I keep hearing about and am debating about purchase. What is the principle difference between v1 & v2 and is v2 really worth paying any extra amount it may cost over v1? Especially if I'm just venturing into that sim for the first time, would I even notice much of a difference between the two?

 

Thank you.

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There is information about this on flight simualtion site. Why do you not read them for yourself?

 

The OP asked a question. Would you actually believe that's what forums like this are for? Frankly if you don't have a spare moment / time or even patience to give a courtesous answer or at least some direction, why even bother with the old adage response of RTFM etc. .

 

Perhaps leave it to others whom might be able to offer some assistance rather than. . . .

 

perhaps you're just having a bad day..

 

:confused:

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There is information about this on flight simualtion site. Why do you not read them for yourself?

 

Gerry - The purpose of THIS site and others is to provide helpful information and build discussion.

 

Responses like this are rude and insulting and not what Flightsim wishes to project.

 

If you want to help, provide an intelligent answer or provide a link where he can find further information.

 

Vic

P3D Rig

I7 7700K @ 5.0ghz Asus Maximus X270 16G G.Skill 3600 15-15-15-18 2T EVGARTX2080ti Corsair 1000W PSU 1TB Samsung SSD for P3D - 2 - 256G OCZ Vector SSD - HAF X - Corsiar H100i V2 Liquid Cooler W10 64 Pro.

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I'm curious about this P3D I keep hearing about and am debating about purchase. What is the principle difference between v1 & v2 and is v2 really worth paying any extra amount it may cost over v1? Especially if I'm just venturing into that sim for the first time, would I even notice much of a difference between the two?

 

Thank you.

 

Actually yes. 1.4 is old and outdated and is not being supported, either by LM or any developers. Version 2 is considerably better and under continual development.

 

You will not regret getting 2.5.

 

As for specific technical differences, the main LM site is a good source for a description of the products.

 

Enjoy!

 

Vic

P3D Rig

I7 7700K @ 5.0ghz Asus Maximus X270 16G G.Skill 3600 15-15-15-18 2T EVGARTX2080ti Corsair 1000W PSU 1TB Samsung SSD for P3D - 2 - 256G OCZ Vector SSD - HAF X - Corsiar H100i V2 Liquid Cooler W10 64 Pro.

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...is v2 really worth paying any extra amount it may cost over v1?

The price for V1.x was precisely the same as for v2.x, so the above question is NULL. As for the differences between the two versions, it is similar to the differences between FS9 and FSX!

 

Once purchased, no further charges will incur until L-M eventually releases v3.x at which time folks will have to pony up a new license fee should they wish to continue the journey... :cool:

Bill Leaming http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Combat/0054.gif

Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Military Visualizations

Flightsim.com Panels & Gauges Forum Moderator

Flightsim Rig: Intel Core i7-2600K - 8GB DDR3 1333 - EVGA GTX770 4GB - Win7 64bit Home Premium

Development Rig1: Intel Core i7-3770k - 16GB DDR3 - Dual Radeon HD7770 SLI 1GB - Win7 64bit Professional

Development Rig2: Intel Core i7-860 - 8GB DDR3 Corsair - GeForce GTS240 1GB - Win7 64bit Home Premium

NOTE: Unless explicitly stated in the post, everything written by my hand is MY opinion. I do NOT speak for any company, real or imagined...

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Have you assured yourself you qualify for a licence?.

 

That's really NONE of your business, Mark. Please STOP bringing up licensing issues.

 

2.x is the way to go if you have the rig to run it, which might be problematic on a rig with your specs.

 

Agreed!

 

Vic

 

EDIT: LOL confused Gerry and Mark.

P3D Rig

I7 7700K @ 5.0ghz Asus Maximus X270 16G G.Skill 3600 15-15-15-18 2T EVGARTX2080ti Corsair 1000W PSU 1TB Samsung SSD for P3D - 2 - 256G OCZ Vector SSD - HAF X - Corsiar H100i V2 Liquid Cooler W10 64 Pro.

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Hi,

 

Well I walk away for 20 hours or so, and it's amazing all the responses I got. I appreciate everyone's input & opinions. Allow me to respond to each point people made w/o creating separate quote-posts:

 

"mgh"--

["There is information about this on flight simualtion site. Why do you not read them for yourself?"]

I do agree that there's a fine line between doing your own research online vs. going to the forums w/o even trying to search yourself. Most of the time I think I'm cognizant of that.

 

In this case I had already gone to P3D's website and read the specs, but I didn't want to get bogged down in details and was hoping for more of a subjective, big-picture view point that only members of the forum could give me.

 

Also, websites can tend to white wash features plus when trying to determine the differences between past and present versions there's one common problem I've run into. Companies will always tell you how each successive version is better than the one that came before it (up-selling), but they'll never tell you how each previous version is now worse than the one that came after it. And I'm looking for a more subjective comparison looking in both directions. In other words, they'll tell me how v2.x is better than v1.4, but the only thing they'll tell me about v1.4 is how it's better than v1.3. And at this point that is irrelevant.

 

"Captain Vodka / tvieno /vgbaron"--

I appreciate your coming to my defense, but I'm not offended and can see it from both points of view. Had I not even bothered to Google P3D and go to their website first, MGH would have had a valid point. Years ago, he was very helpful with some of my gauge questions (as I recall), so I take it all in stride and am willing to let that go.

 

"vgbaron" (Vic)--

["Actually yes. 1.4 is old and outdated and is not being supported, either by LM or any developers. Version 2 is considerably better and under continual development.]

Old, outdated, and not being supported. Hey! That kind of sounds like me!!! But no... seriously, I'm not sure I need another X-Plane 7 and FS9 on my hands. I've had my fill of jumping into town after everyone else has split 9 years ago. If I try a new simulator, it's because I want to collaborate and be part of the cutting edge... not yesterday's news. This is a very strong argument in favor of leaning in the V2.5 direction.

 

"mgh"--

["Does this thread count?"]

Sure it does. As I said, you've been helpful in the past, so an occasional reminder to check my own research first, I don't take it the wrong way. I'm a little thicker skinned than that.

 

"n4gix"--

["The price for V1.x was precisely the same as for v2.x, so the above question is NULL."]

Actually, the price for a v2 Academic License is $10 higher, so yes... it could potentially be an issue, as that was the route I would go if I did.

 

"mallcott"--

["Have you assured yourself you qualify for a license?"]

I appreciate your concern. I'll simply say yes... it will not be an issue.

 

["2.x is the way to go if you have the rig to run it, which might be problematic on a rig with your specs"]

Hmm... I wasn't even going to bring computer specs up, but since you did, I'm curious where (looking at my specs in my signature line) you see me coming up anemic or short?

 

"vgbaron"--

["Agreed"]

Also Vic, I'm curious on what grounds you agree with Mallcott on this one?

 

It's a shame that every time I think that I've spent enough money to get a computer that really flies (pardon the pun), I'm told by others it doesn't quite cut muster. That was and still is my concern about trying to run either X-Plane 9 or 10, and why I've stopped short over there. I was hoping that P3D, being a spawn or an off-chute of FSX (and the old Microsoft Aces Team), would be much friendlier to my computer.

 

So you're saying don't get my hopes up? Hmmm....

 

"mgh"--

["And Lockheed Martin offers a free 60 day trial so there's no reason not to try it out yourself."]

Good point, and per the P3D FAQ, I see I can always ask for a refund within those 60-days; but ideally I prefer to simply make the best decision first time around.

 

Thank you again all,

 

-- John

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John - CPU at 3.1 will run 2.5 but with few of the features that make it special.

 

Unlike FSX - P3D is much more GPU dependent - and your GPU is ok but nothing special.

 

Don 't want to start a war here BUT NVidia seems to be the card of choice but whatever card, a strong GPU is a BIG plus.

 

Vic

P3D Rig

I7 7700K @ 5.0ghz Asus Maximus X270 16G G.Skill 3600 15-15-15-18 2T EVGARTX2080ti Corsair 1000W PSU 1TB Samsung SSD for P3D - 2 - 256G OCZ Vector SSD - HAF X - Corsiar H100i V2 Liquid Cooler W10 64 Pro.

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Vic,

 

Interesting stuff. I gotta' say I don't know that exceedingly much about computers and hardware, but I learn a tad more everyday with increasing enthusiasm.

 

At the time I bought this computer used in March 2013, it was billed by the seller as a "gaming computer" and he touted it with almost "royal" status as he proclaimed it was this and that... etc. It's a far cry above my old HP Laptop with the Intel Pentium processor I was trying to use prior to 2013, so at least I've moved on since then.

 

The seller had it overclocked at 4.3Ghz when I first got it, and I think it was frying the poor thing. So I had somebody roll that back to 3.1Ghz, and unless I learn what I'm doing, I think I'm content just to leave it there. I am no expert in this.

 

Now it is interesting what you say about P3D being more GPU dependent. Unless I have it wrong, I think I've heard from others that X-Plane (and now you've added P3D to the list in my head) are more GPU than CPU dependent, while FS9 and FSX are more CPU than GPU dependent. So I'm guessing that if I've struggled with X-Plane 9 or 10 demos on this computer in the past, it's maybe safe to say that P3Dv2.5 might be a bit of a struggle too?

 

Maybe P3Dv1.4 will run more like the equivalent of X-Plane 7 or 8 (though good God... I hope with better graphics and scenery than X-Plane 7), but as has been discussed already, do I really want to mess around with an outdated and unsupported sim?

 

Thanks for your input.

 

-- John

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Hi John,

 

Something important to consider about P3Dv1.4..

 

I have an i5 laptop, Windows 7 64bit 4GB Ram, running FS9 (2x versions) as well as P3Dv1.4

 

I can only run v1.4 as my laptop is NOT DX11 compliant, which is a requirement of higher versions.

 

Running DXDiag, shows that I have DX11 software but not DX11 hardware.

 

So, if you do have an 'older' PC, check the DX11 compliancy.

 

P3Dv1.4 is ,for me, superior to my FSX, which I subsequently dumped.

 

So, if you do have the required minimum specs, my (humble) opinion is to go for the latest v2.5.

 

It is also great that you will be able to get a full refund from LM if you are not satisfied.

 

Best of luck,

Robin

Robin

Cape Town, South Africa

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Hi John,

 

Something important to consider about P3Dv1.4. I can only run v1.4 as my laptop is NOT DX11 compliant, which is a requirement of higher versions.

 

Running DXDiag, shows that I have DX11 software but not DX11 hardware. So, if you do have an 'older' PC, check the DX11 compliancy.

 

Robin,

 

Interesting point. I knew about the DX11 requirement for v2.5 (and subsequently all versions that come after it), but I was not aware that there's a distinction between DX11 software vs. hardware. I just assumed I check the 'dxdiag' command in the start menu and if it says DX11, I'm good to go. Not true?

 

Let me include a screenshot of my dxdiag page and maybe you can tell where it says DX11, if that means the software, the hardware, or both.

 

Thank you.

 

Computer dxdiag system page-- 64bit.png

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Hi John,

 

Your 'page 1' of DxDiag shows your hardware is DX11 compliant.

 

I am a bit slow to do screenshots, but have a look on the Display 1 tab of DxDiag (up on lft top).

 

On the left of that page, it shows 'Drivers' & other stuff including 'Feature Levels'.

Make sure that there is an 11.0, 10.1, 10.0 shown there.

 

As long as you have a match on the Syatem & Display 1 & 2 pages, you good to go.

Robin

Cape Town, South Africa

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Your 'page 1' of DxDiag shows your hardware is DX11 compliant.

 

It doesn't. It shows that DirectX11 is installed on your PC. It doesn't show that the display driver is DirectX compliant. My laptop has DirectX11 is installed but the driver only supports DirectX 10.0.

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I checked Display 1 tab and my Driver Model says WDDM 1.1. I read on a website that that is a 80~90% good sign but still not a guarantee, as that number is sometimes inaccurate.

 

But then I went on a website that lists several graphics cards that are all DX11, and I found mine-- the Radeon XFX R7870 GDDR5. I'm reasonably certain now... better than 97% chance that my GPU is DX11 compliant.

 

http://solidlystated.com/hardware/list-of-directx-11-video-cards/

 

EDIT: So I've established that my computer has DX11 software per the DX notice at the bottom of pg 1 of the system tab, and we established that my GPU is DX11 capable. But might I still be missing compliancy?

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You should be fine John. Stay away from 1.4 - it will be a waste of $$$.

 

Considering that you state you are not that up on computer hardware, what made you decide that the overclocked cpu was "burning up"? I notice your system has a water cooler. If your cpu temps were within spec you should have been ok.

 

You really need to get above 4hgz or it will be like driving a Ferrari on 4 cylinders.

 

As to your 2013 super gaming system - that may have been true in 2013 but even a YEAR is ages in computer hardware - your system is several generations behind - *BUT* - if you kick that clock back up, you should be able to have more than adequate system for now and then consider a GPU upgrade in the future *IF* you feel you need it.

 

Remember, much of P3D enjoyment will be the eye candy - the clouds, the shadows, etc. Depending on how much of those you want, you may find your GPU just fine!

 

Just do NOT chase the FPS brass ring - get your system SMOOTH at the lowest setting you can - I run mine at 20FPS and it is perfectly smooth. I can run it at 30FPS all day long too but it isn't any SMOOTHER - just faster FPS which equate to nothing more than a benchmark. Tweak for smooth visuals and performance and you'll be a happy camper.

 

And just to head off any long winded back and forth about "I can see stutters at 20fps" - my only response is - if you can see stutters, your system is NOT smooth. If it were smooth, you would not see stutters.

 

Anyhow - follow zwobbie1's advice and just enjoy!

 

Vic

P3D Rig

I7 7700K @ 5.0ghz Asus Maximus X270 16G G.Skill 3600 15-15-15-18 2T EVGARTX2080ti Corsair 1000W PSU 1TB Samsung SSD for P3D - 2 - 256G OCZ Vector SSD - HAF X - Corsiar H100i V2 Liquid Cooler W10 64 Pro.

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As to your 2013 super gaming system - that may have been true in 2013 but even a YEAR is ages in computer hardware - your system is several generations behind -

 

Vic,

 

My Digital Storm machine is older than that (2010), with an Intel Core i7 960 at 3.20GHz, 12GB RAM, and a Geforce GTX 570 (1.2 GB memory), and it runs P3D ever so much better than it runs FSX, so chances are (I don't know much about AMD stuff these days) he's in pretty good shape. I don't have water cooling and won't overclock (I've seen too many chips die with just mild overheat, over time), so his machine is likely much better than mine.

 

John,

Go for it.

 

Larry N.

As Skylab would say:

Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science!

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Larry - I agree he should go for it. I'm just cautioning him that if he doesn't get what he may expect, he has some options for improvement. Barring a complete stutter mess, everything else is subjective. If he's happy, he need not change anything.

 

Vic

P3D Rig

I7 7700K @ 5.0ghz Asus Maximus X270 16G G.Skill 3600 15-15-15-18 2T EVGARTX2080ti Corsair 1000W PSU 1TB Samsung SSD for P3D - 2 - 256G OCZ Vector SSD - HAF X - Corsiar H100i V2 Liquid Cooler W10 64 Pro.

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You should be fine John. Stay away from 1.4 - it will be a waste of $$$.

Okay... noted.

 

Considering that you state you are not that up on computer hardware, what made you decide that the overclocked cpu was "burning up"? I notice your system has a water cooler. If your cpu temps were within spec you should have been ok.

Interesting that you bring that up. Thinking back to two years ago, I recall a series of bad coincidences and red herrings I chased after in my quest to solve problems. In so doing, I probably assumed overclock was the cause of my overheating, when it turned out that it was actually the water cooler that went bad and stopped circulating. But it would take me a few months to make that connection.

 

As for the high temperature itself, I can't exactly recall which of the parameters was going over temp, but looking at a hardware monitor I have installed, I seem to recall it was the CPU and the motherboard that was climbing more than the HD or the GPU. All of them were getting hot but the CPU was out of sight. As it turned out the temp-cutoff threshold in the BIOS menu was set for 90°C, and it was still shutting down. Opting for a safer cutoff (because I never wanted it to climb that high in the first place), I tapered the cutoff temp back to 70°C.

 

I wound up contacting someone who helped me by taking it out of the tiny little box-tower that it was in, and put it in one much bigger where it had more space to breathe. Having no idea the water cooler was broken I went with the only other logical solution for helping the computer to run cooler that I could come up with-- especially since the highest temp in the list was that of the CPU: turn back the clock and bring down the 4.3GHz. That's where it started when I bought it. The person I took it to... I have no idea where he came up with 3.1Ghz. Maybe that was a good baseline number that he knew to be an industry standard, or maybe that was the lowest the computer could be turned down in the BIOS menu. Come to think of it, I wonder if 4.3 is the highest it could go up... hence the reason the seller had it set there.

 

At any rate when I got the computer back, the larger box and the clockdown helped, but all it did was delay the shut down by maybe 10 minutes. It was still happening. That's when one night I notice I didn't hear much whirring on the part of the water cooler and its fan, but a lot of gurgling. That's when someone else advised me that sounded like air could have gotten in the lines, it may be working at very low power, or possibly not even at all.

 

I replaced the water cooler with the same exact model, installed it myself one late night in August 2013 (and no I don't know much about computers and techi stuff but I can read directions, and it didn't seem much harder than changing a set off spark plugs, so I figured if I can do that, I can do this). And I never had another heating problem with the computer again!

 

Now on the motherboard, temps for THRM & TMPIN0 stay around 30°C, TMPIN2 about 40C. GPU, which was the 90'er now sits around 30~35C. Ironically it's the GPU that now gets a little hotter sitting up around 48 to 55C. But the good news with the GPU is I just discovered tonight that the AMD Radeon has an onboard control panel that I can open up and manually control the fan speed if I need to, so I'm not really worried about it.

 

So you're right... I probably could bump up that clock speed a bit, but I guess I'm still a little scared from the summer of 2013, even though I now know that probably wasn't the reason why.

 

You really need to get above 4hgz or it will be like driving a Ferrari on 4 cylinders.

Yes I see what you're saying. I'm creating my own limitations. As I say I think I need to get over the fear factor of giving it a chance. And even if not a 4.3, at least a 3.8.

 

As to your 2013 super gaming system - that may have been true in 2013 but even a YEAR is ages in computer hardware - your system is several generations behind

Yes, you're not the first person to have told me that. I've heard that 18 months of elapsed time for computers (I don't know if they mean software or hardware... maybe both?) is about the equivalent of one human generation. So if you figure that's about 25 years, give or take, my computer is already the equivalent of a man in his early 30's. And that's not including the fact that the seller probably had it at least a year before he sold it to me. So now we might be talking close to 47 or so.

 

- *BUT* - if you kick that clock back up, you should be able to have more than adequate system for now and then consider a GPU upgrade in the future *IF* you feel you need it.

I will consider the upclock first, GPU upgrade second. Up clocking costs me nothing more in dollars-- unless of course I mess up the computer, but a GPU is new ducats out my wallet, so that requires care. So long as I continue to finish projects in FS9 that I've started, I see no real hurry. But when I'm ready to jump in, it'll be time.

 

Remember, much of P3D enjoyment will be the eye candy - the clouds, the shadows, etc. Depending on how much of those you want, you may find your GPU just fine!

So I'm getting the impression it will be more of those give and take situations where no one can "have it all", but one decides what is more important to them, so those are the sliders they move to the right. The other ones they keep to the left.

 

Just do NOT chase the FPS brass ring

Boy am I guilty of that. Like FPS'ness is next to Godliness!

 

get your system SMOOTH at the lowest setting you can

Smooth just means no jitters or pauses when you're flying over scenery? Sometimes just a scenery change, or movement into a new section will do that. I don't know if that's just the nature of moving from one "scenery zone" to another, or a sign of something that I need to adjust. Also, I had always thought that jitters were caused by low framerates. That it was my eyes perceiving the flicker of the video screen, because the FPS had dropped below 30, which is the standard rate at which we're all used to seeing video and thinking that still frames are in seamless motion. I'm guessing I may need to rethink that assumption.

 

- I run mine at 20FPS and it is perfectly smooth.

Unfortunately I can't say that. I wouldn't say mine is a slide show at 20fps, not even close. But it starts to look a little like I'm watching my plane fly through a strobe light. (Flicker-flicker-flicker)...

 

I can run it at 30FPS all day long too but it isn't any SMOOTHER - just faster FPS which equate to nothing more than a benchmark. Tweak for smooth visuals and performance and you'll be a happy camper.

 

And just to head off any long winded back and forth about "I can see stutters at 20fps" - my only response is - if you can see stutters, your system is NOT smooth. If it were smooth, you would not see stutters.

 

Anyhow - follow zwobbie1's advice and just enjoy!

 

Vic

 

Okay, sounds good. Thank you.

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