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Thread: Not really a complaint...

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Edmond, Oklahoma USA
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    151

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    I, too, prefer 2-D panels. And, following Don's procedures (or modifying background bitmaps from other planes), have been making my own 2-D panels for years. The background bitmap matches the aircraft, the gauges make for easier flying on a computer. Neither FSX nor FS9 feel like a real plane, and thus in some ways the sims are a bit harder to fly than real planes. But they make great platforms for practicing instrument procedures -- and all the twitching and tweaking and zooming that you have to do in VC mode is just not realistic. Nor is it timely. Cool beans.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Church Stretton, Shropshire, United Kingdom.
    Posts
    270

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    You can magnify the 3D Cockpit (use the + button). Then I suggest bringing up a second window for the forward view.

  3. Default

    I've read all the suggestions and workarounds in this thread and I am wondering WHY you VC enthusiasts are AGAINST 2D panels?

    How many of you are real pilots? When I used to fly real aircraft I had not time to drag another instrument from under the seat or lean forward to read an insturment. Instruments are meant to glance at while most of your focus is eyeballing the sky unless you are in IMC conditions. 2D cockpits are better for that than most VCs.

    I repeat, why the bias against 2D cockpits? Do they smehow annoy you? Because you prefer them does that mean EVERYONE has to prefer them?

    The other day I was looking for a good, fast, low wing single engine GA aircraft to tool around FSX in. Carenado has some great ones. But every one of them says, 'no 2D panel availabel for this aircraft' or something to that effect. So the 20 or 30 or 40 bucks stayed in my pocket. I will not purchase or download an aircraft without a 2D cockpit.

    If 2D panels are so 'expensive' and 'difficult' to build as someone suggested why did Microsoft provide them with every default aircraft except the FA-18?

    AND someone (Randy Burton) wasted no time coming up wiht a nice 2D cockpit for the FSX default FA-18 which has almost 3500 downloads. There is a demand.

    Noel



    Noel

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    San Francisco, California
    Posts
    17,686

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    +1 for 2D cockpits. I like to taxi and land in the VC but do everything else in the 2D cockpit. My Lockheed Electra, the big turbojet one, has both but I can use the 2D for everything. I don't have a system that has enough poop to it to run TrackIR (just thinking about it makes me dizzy!) so 2D it is!

    That's my Tuppence worth.
    Mr Zippy Sent from my keyboard using "Whackamole", NudgeAKey + 2 Fingers

    Emachines T3418 AMD 3400+ processor 2GHZ/256KB L2 Cashe 2Gig Ram 160Gig HDD NVidia GEForce 6100 GPU Running WinXP Home Can't believe it still works! Running FSX Standard with SP1 and SP2

  5. Default

    As a long time lover of 2d panels, I too prefer the VC these days. I would suggest that for those that think the instruments are too small, it's simply because you have the wrong zoom and eyepoint set...and yes, this isn't all your own fault. Many add-ons have a poorly placed eyepoint which only serves to compound the incorrectly set zoom level and compound the problem further by showing screenshots of panoramic cockpits...not quite what a pilot would be seeing. The low zoom is something people use to get more instruments on the screen, even though they are then too small to read and it presents an unrealistic view of the outside world.

    For a quick and dirty fix, try loading your favourite GA (or even the default Cessna 172). First, use the + button to set your zoom to 1.0 (there are no arguments about this, it is the correct zoom to view the outside world, period). Next, use your hat switch to look around and behind and you'll most certainly find that your virtual head is nowhere close to the back of the seat, so use your keys to adjust your eyepoint towards the rear i.e. you're moving your head towards the rear of the plane. In many cases this is all you need; have a look forward and slightly down and you'll have your main instruments readable and the outside world where it's supposed to be......looks like a 2d panel.

    It's nice to also configure a button on your controller to reset the forward view i.e. the equivalent of using ctrl+spacebar so you can look around wherever and get the proper forward with the click of a button.

    Setting zoomed views for a radio isn't to hard either.
    Cheers

    Paul Golding
    Dreamfleet/Flight1 727 & 727X Developer

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    When using a VC I have used the + and - keys to set the eyepoint. But it's not the same. As you get older and your eyes lose the range of focus you used to have to zoom in so far that you lose the outside view.

    I used to be a pilot. I lost my medical because of glaucoma and failing eyesight. I simply cannot comfortably replicate my real world flying experiences in a VC as well as I can with a 2D panel.

    But the issue here is not trying to make a VC work for those who have problems with it. The issue is the lack of 2D panels with the new aircraft coming out, both freeware and payware.

    In FSX I find myself flying mostly the default aircraft with two expections. FSD still includes 2D panels in their old payware aircraft they made for FS2004 and converted to FSX. I appreciate that. The same goes for Premier Aircraft Design freeware aircraft for FSX.

    I'm not bashing VCs here. They are wonderful for those who have no problem using them. But not all of us can no matter how many times you can zoom in and out or change panel views.

    Speaking for myself I am much more comfortable flying 2D panels and miss the opportunity to try out new aircraft from places like Carenado simply bec ause they won't add a 2D panel. I would be willing to pay extra for a 2D panel addon for those aircraft.

    We all enjoy this hobby of flying around with simulated airplanes in a simulated world. For me, and others like me, the absence of a 2D panel makes the experience less enjoyable.

    I hate rock and roll music (if you can call that collection of sounds music) and much prefer classical and jazz. My grandkids tell me to try listening to their music and I would like it. I have and I don't. But we both have a choice and can listen to what pleases us the most.

    This debate has turned into my grandkids telling me how to listen to rock and roll when I prefer something else.

    I've been at this hobby since the days of wire frame aircraft and pyramids and pylons to fly around. Put my name in the search engine here and you will find my contributions going all the way back to FS5.1 over14 years ago.

    The point is you can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse and you can't turn a VC into a 2D panel no matter how you change the eye-point or how many pop-ups you have. Those who sell addon aircraft for FSX are losing sales by omitting a 2D panel. Maybe not much, but every sale helps the bottom line.

    Don't thell me to zoom on and out. Give me a 2D panel.

    And Paul, go to the articles section here on Flightsim.com and you'll find one I authored several years on how to re-configure your panels so the same key has the same function on every aircraft in your hangar. I know how to do that. What I don't know how to do is make a VC look like an easily readable 2D panel while maintaining an adequate outside view wihtout having to switch something.

    Noel

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Imlay City, Michigan
    Posts
    8,632

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    I would be willing to pay extra for a 2D panel addon for those aircraft.
    Spend the money on FS Panel Studio.
    You can create a 2D for any plane with it. You may find that quite rewarding itself. I did...Don
    HAF 932 Adv, PC P&C 950w, ASUS R4E,i7-3820 5.0GHz(MCR320-XP 6 fans wet), GTX 970 FTW
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  8. Default

    I have FS Panel Studio and use it a lot to modify existing 2D panels. But I have no expertise in designing the cockpit views that go with 2D panels.

    Why are so many of you against 2D panels? Do they bite or something?

    Noel

  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by birdguy View Post
    When using a VC I have used the + and - keys to set the eyepoint. But it's not the same. As you get older and your eyes lose the range of focus you used to have to zoom in so far that you lose the outside view.
    Noel
    The thing is Noel, the + and - keys don't do anything to the eyepoint, they just change the zoom i.e. at 0.5 zoom the outside world looks like it's twice as far away than it actually is. Sure it gives a great field of view, but only by distortion of the real view with the by product being that the VC gauges now look twice as far from you than they should!

    If I get a chance later, I'll post a couple of screenshots for the Cessna 172 with details on how I set the view up.
    Cheers

    Paul Golding
    Dreamfleet/Flight1 727 & 727X Developer

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by birdguy View Post
    I have FS Panel Studio and use it a lot to modify existing 2D panels. But I have no expertise in designing the cockpit views that go with 2D panels.

    Why are so many of you against 2D panels? Do they bite or something?

    Noel
    No one is "against 2D panels", stop being so paranoid! Some of us simply prefer the look and feel of the 3D panels, just as some others prefer the look and feel of the 2D setup.

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