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Thread: Kack ils24

  1. #1

    Default Kack ils24

    Getting back to FSX after a long break. I've been trying the ILS24 approach to KACK (Nantucket) with the stock Baron 58 (non-Garmin 1000). No ATC, just practicing approaching with AP on and in NAV mode. Can't seem to lock onto the glideslope. Nav1 is set to the frequency specified in the GPS for ILS24, and that works fine to align me with the feather, even when approaching at 90 degrees to final about 10 km out. I approach at ~110 knots level and underneath the GS with the APR mode of the AP active. Altimeter is calibrated ("B" key). The GS indicator descends slowly as expected, but it doesn't "lock." It continues down and the APP light remains lit. No problem landing manually. Is there an issue in FSX with this particular approach? Is it perhaps the plane, since the same approach in the C172 seems to work ok.

    I'm running stock FSX Acceleration under Win7x64 with no addon.

    My searching hasn't found anything relevant, so maybe it's my flying? Thanks for any advice. -Ron
    Last edited by rkl122; 07-12-2012 at 11:12 PM. Reason: typo
    FSX Deluxe with Acceleration; SDK to match; Win7 Pro x64; i7/920 (2.67GHz), 8MB; 8G DDR3, 1066; ATI Radeon HD 5770; Saitek X52; 23" LCD, native res=1920x1080

  2. #2

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    Hmm, make sure you are in NAV mode. Also, toggling it back and forth from NAV to GPS and back to NAV again helps. Try that out. I usually have to do that all the time.

  3. #3

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    Does very much sound like what Alan has suggested, flick the NAV/GPS switch, that should get you descending.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack19262 View Post
    ........flick the NAV/GPS switch, that should get you descending.
    Thanks guys. I do remember that toggling trick from past similar situations. Doesn't seem to work at KACK. When I try ILS at KEWR ILS11 with carefully controlled approach speed and altitude, it does seem as if the GS is engaged, at least part way. It still goes beneath me a few hundred feet up - ie. before you would normally disengage the AP for touchdown. And the APR light never goes out. Isn't it supposed to? Or are the GS markers in the guage the only indicator that you're locked on? It's as if NAV1 is responding to the localizer signal, but, while I can see the GS indicator moving on the guage, it seems the AP doesn't lock to it, at least not the whole way. (Incidentally, this particular signal - KEWR ILS11 - brings you in left of runway.)

    So I'm not sure whether the GS is locking but the animation is faulty, or it's not locking at all and I'm just trimming well. I'm just getting back to this. IIRC, locking to the GS was more "sturdy" in the Cessna and Lear. Since I can't find any report about the stock Baron 58 having an issue, I'm assuming it's my technique. Back to practicing... but if someone cares to test the Baron 58 on an ILS approach, I'd appreciate hearing how it goes. Thanks,

    -Ron
    FSX Deluxe with Acceleration; SDK to match; Win7 Pro x64; i7/920 (2.67GHz), 8MB; 8G DDR3, 1066; ATI Radeon HD 5770; Saitek X52; 23" LCD, native res=1920x1080

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by rkl122 View Post
    ...
    The GS indicator descends slowly as expected, but it doesn't "lock." It continues down and the APP light remains lit.
    Hi Ron:

    I tried your ILS24 approach to KACK on the Beech Baron 58.

    When you say that the GS indicator (on the HSI) continues down, are you also adjusting throttle/SPD as needed? Your initial approach SPD 110 is just about right, but as you see the GS indicator come down, gently cut back on the throttle to maintain SPD between (98-100 or as needed) to keep the Glidescope indicator centered. If the indicator goes up add a touch of throttle and if it goes down, reduce a touch (so as to keep the GS centered all the way to RWY threshold). APR light should stay ON during this phase, as you have said.

    If you leave the SPD constant at 110 (instead of maintaining at appx 100), the GS indicator will keep going down.

    Let me know if I understood your scenario correctly.
    Last edited by simmerdr; 07-13-2012 at 07:32 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    No ATC, just practicing approaching with AP on and in NAV mode.
    Not seeing any response to the contrary, I'll give it a shot. AP "NAV" Hold mode only gives lateral control. You want Approach Hold.
    You also want to be below the glideslope when it becomes active and engage Approach Hold when the GS bug or CDI starts to move.

    Quick Check: NAV/GPS Switch in NAV position, Radio tuned to ILS, Hdg within +-30 deg of the Localiser, below Glideslope...App Hold...Don
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  7. #7

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    ILS 24 works just fine using the stock Twin Beech Baron.

    I intercepted the GS at 2000 ft and 140 kts. The Baron stayed on GS with a very good Glide Path. Descent rate was 800 FPM. I throttled back at 1000ft to slow and lowered the gear. Crossed the thresthold at 100 kts.

    The ILS for runway 11 at Newark is a offset approach by default. It is the pilots responsibility to align with the center line as per the ILS approach charts.

    jim

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by jvile View Post
    .........
    I intercepted the GS at 2000 ft and 140 kts. The Baron stayed on GS with a very good Glide Path. Descent rate was 800 FPM. I throttled back at 1000ft to slow and lowered the gear. Crossed the thresthold at 100 kts....
    Quote Originally Posted by simmerdr
    ...
    I tried your ILS24 approach to KACK on the Beech Baron 58...
    Simmerdr & Jim, thank you very much for trying it! Don, yes, roger on those factors, I was honoring them. Jim thanks for the Newark info. (I'm way too much a novice to be checking approach charts. I am aware that there can be such offsets, though I think I've also seen reports that some approaches in FSX are simply mis-modeled.)

    I'm still not getting the Baron approach to KACK ILS24. Thought I'd simplify more by setting up a saved flight starting about 20km out, 3000', 120 knots, NAV mode, and pretty much already aligned with ILS24. I come in at speeds and altitudes very similar to what you guys used, but the GS indicator simply floats down through the midpoint to the bottom. My realism settings are minimal (beginner), but the weather is set to "real." I engage the APR button when I see the GS indicator at the top of the guage and there's been a little movement of the localizer. Also, I'm lowering the gear and flaps before the GS descends. I also have a full tank (which I mention because I found a thread on the FS2002 group where someone felt it's harder to capture GS when heavy). Could any of these factors be important? You guys are using the non-Garmin 1000 model, right?

    I'll keep practicing. Thanks again for confirming that the gremlin sits in my cockpit . -Ron

    EDIT - Uh oh. I just tried the same saved approach but substituting the C172. I thought this plane had worked before, but same problem. Came straight in at 70 kts, 2500 feet. The horizontal localizer started moving slowly, I don't know, about 12 miles out, and again, just continued floating down through the horizontal position. Repeated in the Baron with the ALT mode of AP activated, and as expected the light went off when the GS indicator hit the midpoint. But the GS still didn't lock - it kept floating down. Now I'm worried there's some generic setting gone awry in my configuration. Are there settings in fsx.cfg that relate to GS capture?
    Last edited by rkl122; 07-14-2012 at 11:06 PM. Reason: clarity
    FSX Deluxe with Acceleration; SDK to match; Win7 Pro x64; i7/920 (2.67GHz), 8MB; 8G DDR3, 1066; ATI Radeon HD 5770; Saitek X52; 23" LCD, native res=1920x1080

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Ron,
    Try approaching the ILS course from a slight angle of less than 30 degrees and around 15 to 20 miles out.

    As you get near the final approach course, Watch your VOR 1 gauge. The localizer indicator (vertical needle) will start moving across the gauge. JUST BEFORE the needle gets to the center, activate the APR button. The autopilot should lock on to the approach and the aircraft should steady up on course for the runway and when the GS needle gets to the center of the gauge the aircraft should begin descending on its own.

    Good luck.
    ASUS M3N-HT Deluxe, Athlon 64 x2 5600+ (2.91 GHz), 4 GB Hyper-X dual ch. PC8500, PNY 9800 GT (1024 Mb), 2 WD 500 GB drives, Antec 850 PSU. XP Pro SP3, FSX w/Acceleration, REX Essentials.

  10. #10

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    Ron:

    Your KACK ILS24 case is very puzzling...when others here don't seem to be able to replicate the problem...

    So, first try Grover149's suggestion.

    Being unseasonably hot and humid here in KORD to go outside today......, I gave this flight a 2nd try and made some notes. When you have time, could you please also repeat my test procedure exactly (one last time)?

    1. Load/Move your (non-G1000) Baron 58 to KACK RWY 06 (Note 06 not 24).
    2. Full Fuel OK, but could you please uncheck your "real-world weather" (not that I think that really works or could make any difference).
    3. On the BK Radio/Autopilot panel: set NAV1=109.10;set ALT=2000;click ALT ON to get default vs=700. Keep BK panel open.
    4. On the HSI: set HDG bug to 60 and CRS selector to 240.
    5. Takeoff as usual, and after lift off, clean up, and click AP and HDG ON.
    6. Observe/monitor the NAV1 DME on the BK panel.
    7. When the DME reaches 20-21 nm, click NAV ON. The plane will turn around/back towards RWY24.
    8. Slow to SPD 140 with 50% Flap.
    9. Once the LOC needle gets aligned by itself (appx 12-13 nm out), click APR ON.
    10. Once GS starts moving down (appx 8-9 nm out) while at 2000', lower your gears, and adjust throttle down to achieve SPD appx 100 (with 100% Flap) by the time the GS indicator reaches the midpoint. Descent will begin with VS appx 600. ALT will turn off and APR will stay ON.
    11. GS indicator should now hold steady at the midpoint (with SPD 100) all the way down to 500' or less (w/o any more throttle input).
    12. At less than 500', if necessary fine-tune throttle (up/down) a bit depending on whether the GS indicator is above/below the midpoint.
    13. You should be nicely crossing the RWY threshold ready for touchdown.

    If all these fail, the root-cause will have to be found somewhere else.....
    Last edited by simmerdr; 07-15-2012 at 10:26 PM.

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