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Thread: 3 same AI planes appear on loading, but then 2 just disappear ??

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    660

    Default 3 same AI planes appear on loading, but then 2 just disappear ??

    I have a strange problem with some AI planes. The airport loads and I correctly see THREE AI planes parked correctly in assigned parking spots. All three are the same AI model (a C130 Hercules). But, about five or so seconds later, TWO of these three planes simply disappear, *poof*. The third plane remains. I can't think of any logical explanation for this.

    I am doubting parking spot size is the issue here because the I have double checked the wing_span settings and parking space radius and everything is fine there.

    Likewise, the atc_parking_types should be correct (it is set to MIL_CARGO in the aircraft.cfg file and the parking spots in the AFCAD are also set as MIL_CARGO).

    The fact that one of the AI aircraft remains discounts any theories about aircraft shadows or similar being the cause.

    Does anybody here have any possible explanation as to what would cause three planes to load and show, but then after a handful of seconds, TWO of them simply disappear leaving only one remaining?


    EDIT:
    I may have found a clue ... the AFCAD I am using is one I downloaded from the Internet. If I revert back to the original backed-up AFCAD, the aircraft DO NOT disappear. The AFCAD from the Internet does list four MIL_CARGO parking spots of appropriate size. But, obviously, there is something about that AFCAD from the Internet and potentially those parking spots. (I don't have any AFCAD software nor the SDK installed ... and that stuff is not my 'cup of tea' anyway ... so I think I will have to pass this AFCAD to a friend to check what's going on.)
    Last edited by freddy; 12-28-2010 at 07:48 AM. Reason: Possible clue

  2. #2

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    Are all the parking spots connected to the airfield network ?

    Wim

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    York, North Yorkshire, U.K..
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    Quote Originally Posted by freddy View Post
    I have a strange problem with some AI planes. The airport loads and I correctly see THREE AI planes parked correctly in assigned parking spots. All three are the same AI model (a C130 Hercules). But, about five or so seconds later, TWO of these three planes simply disappear, *poof*. The third plane remains. I can't think of any logical explanation for this.

    I am doubting parking spot size is the issue here because the I have double checked the wing_span settings and parking space radius and everything is fine there.

    Likewise, the atc_parking_types should be correct (it is set to MIL_CARGO in the aircraft.cfg file and the parking spots in the AFCAD are also set as MIL_CARGO).

    The fact that one of the AI aircraft remains discounts any theories about aircraft shadows or similar being the cause.

    Does anybody here have any possible explanation as to what would cause three planes to load and show, but then after a handful of seconds, TWO of them simply disappear leaving only one remaining?
    Just a guess and maybe well off the mark but....................

    Is it posible that the airport "loads" in some sort of default fashion with the relevant AI aircraft of their stands BUT when the PC/Sim recognises what time it is, the aircraft that are scheduled to have departed before that time just comply and disappear???

    Ken
    Old enough to know better...
    ...young enough to do most of it again

    Chillblast i5 6600K Skylake CPU 3.5 - o/c 4.4GHz; 8Gb DDR4 RAM; GTX960 4Gb STRIX OC Direct CUII graphics;
    W10;[FSX-SE] P3Dv4; REX; ASP4; FSC; Little Nav Map; RC4; UTLive and loads of ORBX

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
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    Default

    Actually, I don't believe it is either of those suggestions (but thanks for those anyway). As I wrote in the EDIT above in my original post ... I may have found a clue ...

    The AFCAD I am using is one I downloaded from the Internet. If I revert back to the original backed-up AFCAD, the aircraft DO NOT disappear. The AFCAD from the Internet does list four MIL_CARGO parking spots of appropriate size. But, obviously, there is something about that AFCAD from the Internet and potentially those parking spots. (I don't have any AFCAD software nor the SDK installed ... and that stuff is not my 'cup of tea' anyway ... so I think I will have to pass this AFCAD to a friend to check what's going on.)

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by freddy View Post
    Actually, I don't believe it is either of those suggestions (but thanks for those anyway). As I wrote in the EDIT above in my original post ... I may have found a clue ...

    The AFCAD I am using is one I downloaded from the Internet. If I revert back to the original backed-up AFCAD, the aircraft DO NOT disappear. The AFCAD from the Internet does list four MIL_CARGO parking spots of appropriate size. But, obviously, there is something about that AFCAD from the Internet and potentially those parking spots. (I don't have any AFCAD software nor the SDK installed ... and that stuff is not my 'cup of tea' anyway ... so I think I will have to pass this AFCAD to a friend to check what's going on.)
    Can you post the exact filename of the afcad you downloaded?

    Should be easy enough for one of us to take a look at it and check it for errors which would be causing the issue.
    David "Opa" Marshall

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Melbourne, Australia
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    Thanks David. The AFCAD file in question was taken out of a downloaded package containing other Capital City and Regional airports. I obtained it from the AVSIM File Library. The file was called "Australian_Airports.zip" by Garry Appleby. For my purposes, I only needed the YBTL AFCAD file and so that is all I extracted.

    I have now discovered the following ...

    With this AFCAD, the C130 planes have always parked in the same spot in a neat group at a specific area of the airport, indicating that the parking spots in the Garry's AFCAD file have possibly been assigned certain parking codes. What's interesting is that I am using this AFCAD in conjunction with the Traffic X AI package in which the aircraft.cfg file for the C130 contains the line "atc_parking_codes=C130". If I comment out that "atc_parking_codes=C130" line in the aircraft.cfg file, the THREE C130 aircraft subsequently park at different locations on the airport AND they all remain visible. So that tells us what is happening here. However, I am confused though why with the "atc_parking_codes=C130" in the aircraft.cfg file, a landing C130 plane disappears instead of looking for the next available free parking based on other parameters such as parking spot size or parking spot type ... especially considering there are always PLENTY of free, unused spots available of correct size and type. I thought I had a handle on how parking works in FSX, but obviously I don't. Anyway, I am not going to try to work that out for this particular issue. Suffice to say, it seems logical based on my findings that if the AFCAD in question is edited and has a correct parking code put in place in that specific group area where the other C130s are parking, then the issue will likely be solved.

    Point in case, I doubt there are errors in Garry's AFCAD file(s) ... it's the "atc_parking_codes=C130" line in that Traffic X C130 aircraft.cfg file which is causing an incompatibility. It seems though that it should be a fairly easy thing to add the appropriate "C130" code to the AFCAD parking spots in question to make it work (if that is what would be required).

  7. #7

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    Are you talking about the three spots labled Gate 13, 14, & 15 ? Those spots are 35.0M in radius and the parking codes are "C7 M003 C130 C135 C40 CL60" if viewed with AFX, "C7, M003, C130, C135, C40, CL60" if viewed with ADE.

    Parking 16 is 28.0M with parking codes "10 11 292 76 79 CFS 32 33 34 36 37 A748 C7 C130 C135 C40 CL60 HAWK P3 T6 U21 M003 M002 M001 M000" and Parking 17 is 35.0M with parking codes "10 11 292 76 79 CFS 32 33 34 36 37 A748 C7 C130 C135 C40 CL60 HAWK P3 T6 U21 M003 M002 M001 M000". All those five spots are MIL_CARGO

    There are three MIL_COMBAT spots which are Parking 12, 18, 19 which are 12.0M in size and have parking codes "10 11 292 76 79 CFS 32 33 34 36 37 A748 C7 C130 C135 C40 CL60 HAWK P3 T6 U21 M003 M002 M001 M000" Those three spots are obviously too small for a C-130 - If the planes are trying to park in those spots - after being loaded by FS - it would see that they overlap significantly and would delete two of the planes - probably the outer two.

    The Just Flight Traffic X C-130 aircraft.cfg file has a wing_span= value of 57.2 feet - which is a 9M parking spot - too small for a C-130 - the value should be 132.7 which requires a 21M parking spot.

    The AF2 file which comes with Traffix X has one spot marked for a C-130 - Parking 31 on the northeast military circle. That spot is 67.67M in size and coded C130 M003.

    What day of the week and time of day do you see this behavior occur?

    It will take about an hour to get the Just Flight Traffic X setup on my test computer.
    Last edited by ReggieF5421; 12-28-2010 at 01:24 PM.
    Hello Dave

    @ PawPaw's house - near KADS, Addison, Texas, USA

  8. #8

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    Where did the traffic file come from? My Traffic X install does not have any flight plans for the Aussie C-130s.
    Hello Dave

    @ PawPaw's house - near KADS, Addison, Texas, USA

  9. #9
    Join Date
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    Melbourne, Australia
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    Reggie,

    Yes, parking spots 13, 14 and 15 are the parking spots in question. When I go to the airport and everything loads up, three C130s load in to those spots, but five seconds or so later, the C130 at spot 14 disappears, *poof*. I have noticed that if THREE C130s load (in to 13, 14 and 15), then two remain (one in 13 and one in 15), meaning the one in 14 disappears.

    After using the Traffic X "Airport Information" screen to "update" the database records (to import the values from this AFCAD), Traffic X reports back the following information ... which confirms the details quoted in your post:

    YBTL Townsville Intl, Australia
    Parking Positions:
    CARGO 28.0 1
    CARGO 31.0 2
    CARGO 35.0 4
    GATE 20.0 1
    GATE 23.0 2
    blah
    blah
    blah

    You are correct that the Just Flight Traffic X C-130 aircraft.cfg file has a wing_span= value of 57.2 feet - which is a 9M parking spot - too small for a C-130 - the value should be 132.7 which requires a 21M parking spot. Of course the Traffic X user is able to use the "Fleet Database" screen to modify the Parking Radius value for individual AI aircraft. Based on the YBTL table above, in Traffic X, I set my Hercules parking radius to a value of "30". I do note that even though you change this value in Traffic X, the aircraft.cfg wing_span value remains unaltered. (As a result of this fact, I have no idea what makes it all work but I have been successful many times before modifying the values in Traffic X and seeing my AI planes park in correct or different locations accordingly despite the wing_span value in the aircraft.cfg file remaining unchanged.)

    You mention the AF2 file which comes with Traffix X has one spot marked for a C-130 - Parking 31 on the northeast military circle. That spot is 67.67M in size and coded C130 M003. The problem with Traffic X's original AFCAD is that the entire airport is skewed off on a funny angle meaning airport buildings do not match aprons and some of the airport infringes on the town. Also, in real-life, YBTL is a shared civilian/military airport and has lots of military traffic movements daily ... so a single lone spot for a C130 is not really correct. I prefer better realism than that and with the ability to add flight plans etc via Traffic X I was lucky enough to find Garry's AFCAD, based on the default FSX AFCAD for this airport, which suits the needs perfectly for both plenty of civilian and military parking etc. After downloading Garry's AFCAD I set about adding flight plans.

    Therefore, to answer your question about where the traffic file came from ... as an Aussie, I have done extensive flight plan adding/editing/deleting for Australia. It's not perfect, and it is not based on real-world schedules, but it is FAR BETTER than the default traffic which comes with the default Traffic X install. For example, you are correct to say your Traffic X install does not have any flight plans for Aussie C130s. I have also downloaded planes and created flight plans for the country's regional airlines, and also added some 777-300ERs for V-Australia. Not to mention the Royal Flying Doctor Service (RFDS) for the "outback". Etc etc. Hours and hours of work.

    OK ... based on the information you have provided in your post about the three spots labled Gate 13, 14, & 15 which are 35.0M in radius and have parking codes of "C7 M003 C130 C135 C40 CL60", I am confused as to why a Traffic X C130 in spot 14 would disappear considering it has "atc_parking_codes=C130" set in its aircraft.cfg file AND a wing_span value of 57.2 feet (which is a 9M parking spot) AND ALSO a modified Traffic X parking radius value of "30"? All of that seems to suggest it should correctly work and park in that spot. Likewise, if spot 13 is already occupied by a C130, any landing C130 simply disappears after coming to a halt on the runway, refusing to look for other available spots on the airfield which are certainly plentiful. I have always understood from reading forum posts on this subject matter (actually, probably from you) that when an AI plane needs a parking, it loops over all free parkings at the airport based on a) radius, b) parking type, c) airline code and then d) distance from runway it lands on. So, in my mind, a landing C130 should not be disappearing at this airport. If indeed there is some issue causing disappearing planes from spot 14, then I would have thought that the parking algorythm would find vacant spot 15 free and available for the C130 landing plane.

    Armed with the details you have provided in your post on those parking codes and sizes etc, I will run a few more experiments and changes and see what I can produce. I will post results here in a new post.
    Last edited by freddy; 12-28-2010 at 08:19 PM.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by freddy View Post
    You are correct that the Just Flight Traffic X C-130 aircraft.cfg file has a wing_span= value of 57.2 feet - which is a 9M parking spot - too small for a C-130 - the value should be 132.7 which requires a 21M parking spot. Of course the Traffic X user is able to use the FLEET DATABASE screen to modify the Parking Radius value for individual AI aircraft. Based on the YBTL table above, in Traffic X, I set my Hercules parking radius to a value of "30".
    Set the C-130 to use a 21 M parking spot size. Try that.
    Hello Dave

    @ PawPaw's house - near KADS, Addison, Texas, USA

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