Hubris

I'm sure Pat (Phantomtweak) will jump in with lots of help. To get you started, i used an F-14 made by Dino that was my first experience at carrier landing. I was using AICarriers to plant one of many carriers out in front of me to land on. You don't necessesarily need to be flying a jet. Most 3rd party military prop planes that can lower a tailhook will do nicely.

Your steam fsx will have an fa-18 carrier landing Mission. Fly that for practice.

I'll "second" mrzippy's suggestion (more or less)

Search these forums for "carrier landings" or similar posts for lots of discussions and descriptions...

Download Dino's T-45 trainer (it's what the Navy uses/used to initially train in carrier landings). You can download the latest version directly from Dino's site https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1VJtKJlye7FSlhqWTh3cUxEVk0/view?usp=sharing The advantage of the T-45 is the included pdf description of carrier landings: pattern, speed, procedures etc - very helpful. MS did not provide similar info for the F-18

Then practice, practice, practice.

If you really prefer the F-18, then you should get the improved version of the FSX Hornet from the FSDreamteam group: http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,6944.msg117011.html#msg1 This version fixes a number of issues with the original default model.

If you set your AI shipping above 50% you should see the built-in AI carriers at their designated start locations or enroute when you are ready to land on a moving carrier. Look here(http://www.simtours.net/defaultaircraftcarrier.php) to locate FSX moving carriers.

As mrzippy mentioned, the AICarriers2.Net program allows you to set up a moving carrier anywhere you want.

If you'd like an enhanced version of the carrier with personnel and different A/C configurations on the deck get uss_nimitz_ike_version2.zip from the library. I've used this as a replacement for the default carrier for years.

I have a short video of the T-45 landing on a moving USS Eisenhower (Goin' to the boat) in my YouTube videos via the link below.

Hope this gets you many happy hours of 'controlled crashing' on moving decks...

Loyd

Hiyas!

Just a couple notes to somewhat amplify what Mr. Zippy (thanks for the recommendation! :D ) and Loyd were kind enough to post...

First, I cannot recommend the FSDT F/A-18C v 17.1 (the latest release) more highly. Dino's T-45 is a nice stepping stone to flying the fast movers onto the boat, but the F/A-18 is the Cadillac of carrier landing planes. You might want to try some FCLP (Field Carrier Landing Practice) at a shore station, like Coupeville, right next door to Whidbey Island (A major training base). The real world pilots do hundreds, nay even thousands, of FCLPs before they are permitted near a carrier, and with good reason.

By the way, the FSDT team who made the v17.1 are the same people that came up with the Acceleration F-18. They took that basic plane, and the improvements they've made to it are just incredible. Just saying, they know what they're doin!

As Loyd said, definately go with Orion Lau's AICarriers.net, vice the original, Java based version. It uses far fewer computer resources, and is more stable, and reliable.

Another nice little program to add to the carrier landing realism is vLSO, by FSDT's Paddles. He WAs an LSO, and he wrote a great program to provide them to the FSX carriers, including addons. You can find it HERE. There are a number of very nice FCLP scenery's on the same page, if you're interested. Just so you know, though, those AI LSO's are just like the real ones: Downright MEAN! Be warned, and don't get discouraged. Your first OK trap will be a great feeling.

Remember, when dong traps on the boat, you can set it in motion with AICarriers, which provides 25Kts Wind Over the Deck (WOD), which is fine for the T-45, but 10Kts shy of the NATOPS required WOD for the Hornet. You can use the FSX included weather engine to provide the other 10 kt's, though. Just make sure it down the angle deck, not on the bow. There's about an 8° difference. So if the BRC (Base Recovery Course) or the course the boat is sailing, is 300°, you want to set the wind for 10Kts at 292°, which will also be the final course you will use to recover, or trap, aboard. You also want to make sure the plane is below 33,000 Lbs Gross Weight. You can dump fuel to accomplish this. There's a Fuel Dump switch on the left hand control panel. Or go up and do some maneuvers with the AB's lit. They will use fuel pretty quick! :D

Any questions, I'll be happy to try an help. I am a HUGE fan of FSX's carriers, and landing there-on :D

If you want, I can give yo a link to the real world's F/A-18A/B/C/D NATOPS. Or Google it. It's the Naval Aviator's bible. Learn it, know it, live it :cool: :pilot:

Have fun!

Pat☺

Pat, you mentioned FCLP, I have Miramar, Coupeville, Patuxent and Lemoore, and even though the "scenery" of the cables are there, they don't actually engage the tail hook. I have Arrestor Cables 2.6, is there any way any of these sites could be made to actively trap a plane? (Sorry to single you out, but you seem to be the "go to" guy for all things Navel oops Naval.. Terry

Hi Terry,

The arrestor cables on all these sceneries are emergency arrestor cables for troubled landings. The USN does not do any kind of arrested FCLP training. All FCLP are touch and go landings, colloquially called "bounces" by the folks involved.

Hope this helps.

He's right, FCLP's are T&G's, not full stops.

As to shore station arresting gear, it depends on the station. Some have arresting gear similar to that onboard the boat, with it's equivalent stopping power, and at the other end of the spectrum are stations that have the pendants (the actual name for the cables) connected to old carrier anchor chains.

NAS Millington, is one example. I used to go riding along a berm overlooking the runway with my girlfriends when I was there the first time. I got caught out in a thunderstorm one day while riding, and there was lightning striking the chains on one end of the runway. Heck of a light show, but a bit noisy. The horses were NOT happy about it either.

Anyway, yes they can act as effectively as the arresting gear on the carrier. Some Air Force bases have arresting gear as well, but theirs are turned WAY down, compared to the Navy version, as Air Force planes aren't stressed to take an arrested landing like the Navel birds are :D

One final note: DON'T FLARE for touchdown, whether on the boat or a shore stations. For pilots with conventional training, that's something very hard to learn. Navy pilots have it drilled into them from day one. I've been told by some Marine pilots I knew that the instructors would threaten them with a Courts Martial if the flared for landing. True or not, I can't say for certain. Pilots DO like to, ahem, stretch the truth, at times...

Anywho, you don't flare because if you do, the angle of the plane, and thus the height of the hook off the deck, changes, and it may well skip the wires. Once you're established in the groove, and have your AOA right, HOLD it. Use power to vary descent rate, and ride it all the way to the ground/deck. You should hit the deck with a 700-800 FPM descent rate. Once your gear hits, give it the gun. If you make the trap, although in FCLP you obviously never will, fine, the gear will stop you. If not, you have the power set to go around. But leave the stick alone, other than lateral adjustments.

The FSDT F/A-18 will set the trim to the correct value, 8.1°, automatically, to get the correct AOA. The FCS takes care of it, just as in the real world Hornets. Other planes, you need to manually trim to get the AOA right. It's critical to have the proper AOA, though. Vital.

Each plane's NATOPS will have the proper AOA for the different weights of the plane.

Now, go have fun! IMO, The "easiest" FCLP stations are Coupeville or El Centro, although the one the T-45's usually use, Meridian, MI, by Henry “uchi” Street, is very good, and recognized by the vLSO's, if you want them along for the ride. You can find it where Paddles blog page for vLSO is located. Personally, I think I annoyed Paddles at some time, and he added a "hate Pat" module to the program... :p ;) :rolleyes:

Pat☺

Pat, thank you enlightening us on the peculiarities of "Traps". I personally appreciate the explanation of the fixed AOA. As a RW pilot, it's taking some getting used to hitting the ground at 5-7 hundred feet per minute. You're right about the AF planes not strong enough for carrier traps. I've seen many AF planes hit the cables and are dragging it behind them for almost 1/8 mile. If they tried that on carrier cables, there would be many pieces left on the deck. Thank you for the info..

LOL!! You just named a huge issue comparing Naval Air to civilian or Air force air. Everyone else seems to think a wonderful flare and soft landing is the best there is. Whereas in the Navy and Marine Corps the training is to fly to the ground! As Pat said, if you don't you probably will miss the ship!

Rupert

Glad to help :D

There is a mission out there someplace, I'll see if I can find it again, that teaches FCLP techniques and patterns at Coupeville. It gives a series of squares for you to fly through, all the way around from the break to touchdown. IIRC, you can "freeflight" it as well, and it will still put the squares up for you. Really a great learning tool. It's written for the F-18, but I think it'll work fine for the T-45 or F-14, should you desire to use them instead.

I'll try to find a link to it if you're interested.

And always remember, any REAL Nasal Radiator (Naval Aviator :D ) always comes in on a good tight break, or "overhead recovery". Nice, rectangular patterns are for Zoomies, not REAL flyers. Another habit non-Navy pilots have to learn to break.

Anyway, keep practicing! Great thing about a sim is that if you fly into the round-down, or clip the Island, no harm done. :D

Pat☺

Rupert, LOL! so true. Naval and Marine aviators have a very small spot to aim for(plus the darn thing is moving), whereas civilian and Air Force types have a targets sometimes two miles long and 100 ft. wide and it ain't going nowhere..;).

Pat: That sounds like fun.. thank you.. I'll be looking out for it..

Rupert, LOL! so true. Naval and Marine aviators have a very small spot to aim for(plus the darn thing is moving), whereas civilian and Air Force types have a targets sometimes two miles long and 100 ft. wide and it ain't going nowhere..;).

 

 

Pat: That sounds like fun.. thank you.. I'll be looking out for it..

Not only is it moving forward, but up/down/left/right too. Sometimes all at once!

You can add this effect (the up/down/etc) with a nifty little bit of software called Pitching Deck, oddly enough. It will make the boat do anything from gently rise and fall a few feet (relatively calm sea-state) to doing dutch rolls many, many feet around. A great little add-on to make a Cat III recovery, like at night in bad weather, even more realistic. Lower the ceiling to 100', at night, with no visibility until you break out (remember, the deck is 90' off the water!!), and you can understand why landing aboard a carrier is the single most stressful event in aviation. Even more-so than ACM.

Even with a working ACLS, imagine descending down through the soup, no visual references, until suddenly there's the deck, and it's falling away from you, while moving left! Even doing it on a sim, your heart will beat faster, the sweat will break out on your forehead...

THAT'S where you learn to appreciate the (v)LSO's!!

I've had pilots tell me that the last thing they think before they cat off is "I can't believe they pay me to do this!", and the last thing they think before they try to trap is "They don't pay me near enough to do this!!!"

The link for the Coupeville FCLP mission is HERE. Even should you choose not to perform the actual mission, the scenery is great. Make's Coupeville look quite realistic. The documentation provides a lot of detail information as well. Like DON'T fly over this little area, the day time altitude to use is thus, etc etc. It adds a carrier's deck landing area shaped marking to both ends of the runway, and a FLOLS trailer to give you the right visual reference on the way down. You can realistically "call the ball" for the vLSO, if you use it.

When you think you're ready to go out to the boat, make sure you have AICarriers.NET, and Javier's Nimitz v2. If you're not going to use the FSDT F/A-18C v17.1.31, make sure you get Jivko Rusev's updated HUD. Makes landing aboard much easier, providing nav info to the boat, and ILS needles once you get there.

I can provide links to anything I've mentioned, or you can dig it up from Google yourself, should you desire. :D

Have fun!

Pat☺

Thank you all for your advice—it’s much appreciated. I’ve printed every reply and will review it line-by-line. In my lifetime, one of the biggest joys has been the first steps to overcoming a very difficult challenge. The first step is getting your mind around the problem, understanding exactly what the challenge is and imagining the final triumphant moment. Now, even more so, I take my hat off to all those youngsters who really do the work especially nighttime pitched-deck landings. Even watching them makes my heart race. Cheers.

That's why vLSO is so popular. It gives you an "independant", relatively objective, performance eval of each landing, in very close detail, so you can see what you did right. And what you did...ahem...not so right. Full written description of the trap, from the break to touchdown. They even yell at you if you don't turn off your external lights as soon as your hook spits out the wire at night. There's also a 3D graphic of your plane's path all the way down. Really handy for analyzing your technique, once you establish one, and correcting anything you do incorrectly. IF you can take the...not abuse, exactly, but certainly harsh analysis of your performance. Just like the real LSO's do.

I still think my installation has a Hate Pat module built in... :p

All these add-ons, like AICarriers, vLSO, and so on, can be started automatically when you start the sim, if you want. Saves a lot of clicking after you're ready to fly. It just let's you hop in your mount and awaaay you go. Or hop in, start, taxi, and take off, if you like the cold-n-dark set up.

Anywho, have fun, and good luck in your endeavour. Getting your Wings of Gold, even simulated, is a huge accomplishment, and an immensely prideful result to all your hard work. And practise. Never enough practise! :D

Pat☺

That's why vLSO is so popular. It gives you an "independant", relatively objective, performance eval of each landing, in very close detail, so you can see what you did right. And what you did...ahem...not so right. Full written description of the trap, from the break to touchdown. They even yell at you if you don't turn off your external lights as soon as your hook spits out the wire at night. There's also a 3D graphic of your plane's path all the way down. Really handy for analyzing your technique, once you establish one, and correcting anything you do incorrectly. IF you can take the...not abuse, exactly, but certainly harsh analysis of your performance. Just like the real LSO's do.

 

 

Pat☺

Wow! It does all that!! I always felt the best "independent" performance evaluation of my landings had to do with how much needed to be patched or repaired before the plane was flyable again!

And according to the CMO, everything but obviously combat related damage was always my fault!! :eek::eek: LOOK AT WHAT YOU DID TO MY ------- PLANE THIS TIME!!

Michael

If Ii may make one little suggestion/comment: The Sludge Hornet is NOT a quality plane. It's the FSX F-18, with adjusted aircfraft.cfg and .air files to make carrier traps EASIER. It's not at all realistic.

Try the FSDT F/A-18C v17.1.31 . You can get it from the bottom of any post by jimi08. Look down at the bottom, in his sig. There is a link to the v17.1.31 there.

THAT plane has a ton of changes and additions, like the FCS, special aerodynamic PID controllers, and a new Hornet_FCS.dll, etc. They make this plane as close to the real world one as is possible in the sim. And this is according to not only real world Hornet drivers, both current and retired, as well as the guy that programs the Navy's flight simulators the pilots use for extra practise, NATOPS checks, and so on. The HUD system, the automatic flap controls, fuel usage, engine power and responsiveness, the list goes on, are all upgraded to make it as realistic as you can find in any simulator. It even makes the payware VRS TacPac Superbug look pitiful, if you want my opinion.

You'll see the differences immediately from the Sludge bird. That was designed only for use around the boat, and it's very (too?!?) easy to do that with it, but as to realistic, wellll...

Have fun!

Pat☺

PS: Adjusting the values in the PID controllers, and the flaps values in the aircraft.cfg as well as the .air file, not to mention the landing gear contact point values wasn't easy, believe you me!!

A note on the installation of the v17.1: It will install the .NET Framework that it requires for you, after it installs the plane. However, the installer can APPEAR to lock up, or freeze, or just stop working. It's NOT! Just let it run. I've seen it take up to 15 minutes or longer. Just take a break. Go get a cuppa, or take a walk outside or something. Just leave it alone, and it'll get done when it get's done. A lot of people think it's locked and reboot, or shut it down with the Task Manager, and then wonder why the plane's avionics don't work.

And like I said, loose the Sludge plane. It's an OLD thing, made for a very specific purpose, and I don't believe, personally, it's very good at that.

Have fun, and DON'T get low in the groove :eek:

Pat☺