• Flight Sim World - Initial Reaction To DTG New Simulator

    Dovetail Games have released their new simulator onto the Steam store as an Early Access product, but by owning a copy of Flight School previously, I was able to receive this game for free! Flying around for 3 hours now, I've been able to form an opinion based on what I've seen thus far with each aircraft and scenery from around the world.

    I did also livestream my initial reaction to the simulator, is this is something you guys may be interested in!



    First of all with any flight simulator, the aircraft themselves is the first thing you will want to ensure is as good as can be. Compared to FSX? They do feel nice! Accufeel does do its work in terms of flight dynamics and the first signs of simulation in the airflow of the aircraft, especially in the case of stalling and high speed flying. On the ground, they will also react to the ground surface, so dirt runways the aircraft bounces while on tarmac it's a lot smoother.



    It's not perfect however. Flying in certain conditions feel too smooth compared to what aircraft should feel like in the real world. While Accufeel integration does take the simulator a long way, it's still got some work that needs to be done which hopefully will be continued on during the early access development of this simulator!

    I do like the seven aircraft the simulator has as default, the Piper Malibu probably being my favourite based on how it flies and also it's looks! The flagship aircraft for this title will be the Piper Seneca V which Dovetail Games have put the most effort in and the end result does look fantastic. The developers have put a lot of work behind this and I'm glad as this does set a standard for what we are hopefully​ going to see in the future, whether that be standard or third party aircraft in the simulator.



    In order to change the aircraft livery, it's a little more hidden than I would have liked, but it's easy to access via the aircraft configuration panel, in one of the tabs towards the top of the screen.

    This article was originally published in forum thread: Flight Sim World - Initial reaction to the new flight simulator from Dovetail! started by DrawyahGames View original post

    25 Comments
    1. RatRace's Avatar
      RatRace -
      I don't want to be a spoil-sport, but one of the main reasons I abandoned MSFS in favour of XP11 is the scenery, where in FS9/X main roads have this distinct and IMO very ugly "painted on" look, with autogen oftentimes sitting on top of those roads.
      Much to my dismay, this hasn't changed in DTG FSW, no doubt because they opted for the MSFS scenery engine instead of the superior MS Flight engine. Apparently not even OrbX can change this.

      I assume that on final release DTG will stop selling FSX SE. In that case, and assuming they also include jets, DTG FSW has a good chance of becoming the true heir to FSX.

      But for me, it will remain XP11 for the foreseeable future; while keeping an eye out on what happens with Aerofly FS2.
    1. DominicS's Avatar
      DominicS -
      Good writeup Michael...many thanks!
    1. howlak's Avatar
      howlak -
      Quote Originally Posted by RatRace View Post
      I don't want to be spoil-sport, but one of the main reasons I abandoned MSFS in favour of XP11 is the scenery, where in FS9/X main roads have this distinct and IMO very ugly "painted on" look, with autogen oftentimes sitting on top of those roads.
      Same problem for me but with X-plane. I never understood why a simulator that allows runways follow terrain contours, puts thousands of inexistent bridges under the roads for flattening them.
    1. ricardo_NY1's Avatar
      ricardo_NY1 -
      FSW in my opinion doesn't bring anything to the table. It is squeezing the last bit of juice out of the orange in a 3rd party add-on money making scheme. Improved performance? A bit on the late side when the flight sim community already made Intel and NVidia richer trying to run FSX. I guess better late than never. If it weren't for these type of distractions, we'd have more people and 3PD developers on board with the sim that deserves community support in my opinion, and that is Laminar's X-Plane. Not people who are so out of touch with us that they refer to flight simmers as "Gamers". Fortunately, the tide is turning with X-Plane 11 and once there are enough people on board, it's gonna get good add-on wise. Thank god for X-Plane or I'd still be using FS2004.
    1. nippa's Avatar
      nippa -
      Clearly the reviewer had a better experience than me.
      Long loading times , poor frame rates in single figures and unimpressive graphics soon had me pushing the Steam refund button.
      It felt like dejavu.
      Remember when FSX first came out and it was unplayable. Let's hope that development continues but for me it is too soon to invest!
    1. kjcollins's Avatar
      kjcollins -
      Straight and simple i will stay with X-Plane 11, a far superior sim for me.
    1. ssowry's Avatar
      ssowry -
      Folks,
      What's your opinion on FSX/SE w/ Orbx, versus P3D?? From what I've read P3D is what FSX was supposed to be. However there are only a handful of aircraft that are compatible with P3D. FSW sounds out of the question.....so if you had to start all over again which flight simulator would you go with?? FSX/SE or P3D or even XP11......but I think XP11 has the same hangups as P3D as far as limited add-on aircraft and scenery....
    1. owend's Avatar
      owend -
      I have recently installed ORBX global vector, NA landclass, and textures into my FSX. It has changed the entire looks of the sim for the better. As to any sim going forward, I am keeping an eye on Aerofly FS2. As I understand it, one of the problems that FSW may run into going forward is with 3rd party developers and addons for FSW. FSW wants all addon developers to run their addons through the DTG site in addition to their own marketing. If true, this may cause some real problems in the future for FSW. We will see what happens.
    1. RatRace's Avatar
      RatRace -
      Quote Originally Posted by ssowry View Post
      Folks,
      What's your opinion on FSX/SE w/ Orbx, versus P3D?? From what I've read P3D is what FSX was supposed to be. However there are only a handful of aircraft that are compatible with P3D. FSW sounds out of the question.....so if you had to start all over again which flight simulator would you go with?? FSX/SE or P3D or even XP11......but I think XP11 has the same hangups as P3D as far as limited add-on aircraft and scenery....
      You can use Orbx with P3D too, so the comparison should be FSX/SE w/ Orbx versus P3D w/ Orbx.
      Many 3rd party developers also provide a P3D version of their products.
      So I don't think there is a dearth of (commercial) scenery and aircraft for P3D.
      Contrary to popular belief, P3D is not based on MS FSX, but on ESP, the "engine" that MS also used as a basis for FSX. After years of development, P3D and FSX are growing further and further apart.

      DTG FSW is a continuation of FSX/SE, but as yet, it is very unclear what FSW will offer "out-of-the-box" and how much content will have to obtained through official (and unofficial) add-ons. One clear advantage of FSW over FSX/SE and P3D is the default Orbx (landclass) scenery.

      I use XP11. X-Plane used to lag behind MS FS in terms of available high quality add-ons, but is catching up quickly. I prefer XP11 over P3D, but that is mostly a matter of taste. In any case, you can always download a demo of XP11 and judge for yourself.

      Overall I would say that both P3D and XP11 are targeted at the "serious" simmer. In - the hopefully not so far away - future DTG FSW may become the preferred option for those who take simming somewhat less seriously.
    1. ricardo_NY1's Avatar
      ricardo_NY1 -
      Quote Originally Posted by owend View Post
      As I understand it, one of the problems that FSW may run into going forward is with 3rd party developers and addons for FSW. FSW wants all addon developers to run their addons through the DTG site in addition to their own marketing. If true, this may cause some real problems in the future for FSW. We will see what happens.
      I think that is the financial model/motive with FSW. Issue is it becomes red tape towards freeware which is just as valuable in the flight sim community. I think we've seen enough of (Over a decade enough) of FSX era graphics. As far as I am concerned, don't bother bringing out a sim unless it has some wow factor as opposed to trying to figure out how to squeeze the last drops of juice out of FSX. For a second I thought at the least it was FSX with better performance due to the 64bit port, but it's not even that so what is the point of it all aside making some money with the 3rd party developers? What's in it for us? Orderly add-ons through Steam? Cool menus? No thanks.
    1. ncgmcpherson's Avatar
      ncgmcpherson -
      I have both FSX and X-Plane 10/11. I tried FSW, and frankly I think it was too soon for EA. I understand the developers want the feedback, but they would have helped themselves out if they had offered a limited free alpha offering rather than treating it as a feature complete bug fix offering. At this point you are paying for the "privilege" of testing their software. Something most people get paid to do.

      That out of the way, FSW has potential. As of today, I like X-Plane 11 the best in regards to overall flight. However, their ATC is infamous, and deservedly so. It really does take away from the experience. FSX is the most mature in regards to features and add-ons but yes, it shows its age. You can find Payware aircraft that offer decent graphics, but once you look outside it all goes downhill.

      As for Dovetail just looking to make money, of course they are. They're a business. If they don't make money they go out of business and people lose their jobs and it's all very nasty. As a software developer I have no issue with software companies finding new ways to bring in the monies. However, they do need to offer a quality product. Today FSW isn't there. Hopefully in a few months we will all be loving it.
    1. ricardo_NY1's Avatar
      ricardo_NY1 -
      Quote Originally Posted by ncgmcpherson View Post
      As for Dovetail just looking to make money, of course they are. They're a business. If they don't make money they go out of business and people lose their jobs and it's all very nasty. As a software developer I have no issue with software companies finding new ways to bring in the monies. However, they do need to offer a quality product. Today FSW isn't there. Hopefully in a few months we will all be loving it.
      I don't have any issue with a business trying to make money.........I know exactly what that is like, but where is the meat and potatoes? My issue is with hot air and recycled greed schemes. One hand has to wash the other...........they get paid and what do we get? For FSW to at least be worth the while, it should run with superior performance over FSX in 64bit/today's multiple cores. If it can't do that and we have to make another hardware investment over FSX to get FSX era graphics, it's a flop.

      FSW will go the way of MS FLIGHT
    1. hangar32's Avatar
      hangar32 -
      While reading this excellent review and watching the streamed video (well, most of it) I kept asking myself, "Why now?"

      FSW is definitely not ready for even an Alpha test (as obvious by large parts still not usable) let alone a "pre-release". So why pre-release it now?

      Rain drops on the windows and a 64bit system (I really didn't see an improvement given the hardware specs) do not make a next generation flightsim.

      I recall reading in a forum that FSW is not backwards compatible with FSX. At first I thought that was a good thing. Sure, I'm gong to have to get another job to "refill my hangar", but that was outweighed, in my mind, by a modern engine akin to DCS or X-Plane11.

      Yet everything in it is FSX-based…to include 2004/6 timeframe airports and NAVAIDS (they couldn't just have opened the hood and poured the latest Navigraph info inside? figuratively speaking).

      No, it is obvious to me that the non-backwards compatibility, combined with all 3rd party adding having too go through DTG, is just a money maker and, in my somewhat experienced opinion (a flight simmer since 1984 - subLogic Flight Simulator) it will be FSW's downfall.

      MSFS and X-Plane have prospered because they were essentially "open systems" that the flight sim community used to make additional content–freeware and pay-ware–far beyond what is included in the base package. Other flightsims have gone the way of the dinosaurs because their closed systems did not offer that fully capability.

      …and still I ask "Why now?"…just some arbitrary deadline? …or do they need a sudden influx of cash?

      Regardless, I will be reserving my final opinion until the full version comes out and they lay all their cards on the table.

      …although the raindrops are pretty cool.
    1. Raptorman123's Avatar
      Raptorman123 -
      Great review thanks for taking the time. However, I read these comment with some sadness. I cannot understand why we would not all be supporting and encouraging Dovetail with their courage to invest in a new and improved simulator and for letting people (that's us) help in the development. How quick we forget that X-Plane had a lot if issues with their early Beta releases but now many of you seem happy with the final product. I couldn’t care less about raindrops not falling exactly as they are supported to in an early release Alpha/Beta. These are things that will can and will be ironed out in future updates. I for one applaud and encourage Dovetail because I want companies to invest and bring us new software. As a real Private IFR pilot these simulators allow me to practice approaches before trying them for real, and that makes me a safer pilot. If Dovetail make money in the process fantastic, and hopefully will keep investing.
    1. Raptorman123's Avatar
      Raptorman123 -
      Great review thanks for taking the time. However, I read these comment with some sadness. I cannot understand why we would not all be supporting and encouraging Dovetail with their courage to invest in a new and improved simulator and for letting people (that's us) help in the development. How quick we forget that X-Plane had a lot if issues with their early Beta releases but now many of you seem happy with the final product. I couldn’t care less about raindrops not falling exactly as they are supported to in an early release Alpha/Beta. These are things that will can and will be ironed out in future updates. I for one applaud and encourage Dovetail because I want companies to invest and bring us new software. As a real Private IFR pilot these simulators allow me to practice approaches before trying them for real, and that makes me a safer pilot. If Dovetail make money in the process fantastic, and hopefully will keep investing.
    1. ploddery's Avatar
      ploddery -
      Looking at Dovetails history, it seems this is just another Train Simulator fiasco!
      In the EULA for Train Simulator (TS), anything you make or design for it instantly becomes the property of Dovetail Games (DTG), for them to use and remarket as they wish.
      Will it be the same for FSW?
      If I update an airport and post it for free for others to use, DTG will grab it and use it as a DLC for sale on Steam. Just like they have done on TS.
      This is just a re-hash of FSX with the same engine and scenery, but now 64 bit. Not enough for me to jump from FSX!

      Where are the Jets? Oh yeah....they will be DLC, mark my words!
      DTG are in it for the DLC, take a look at all the DLC for TS, all £4020 pounds worth!
      Everything that you can get for free now, will be repackaged as its not backwards compatible, and will be for sale as DLC. That's what I believe will happen.

      Xplane11 puts this sim in the shade, far better utilization, better graphics, better lighting, and an open architecture.

      I'm just waiting to see what the new release of P3D v4 in a few days is going to be like.
      Might be the reason DTG pushed this game out so soon, so as not to lose sales to P3D, which will happen!
    1. rdrumm26's Avatar
      rdrumm26 -
      Folks, I know this is an early access release, but what really amazes me is, that there is so much talk about planned improvements to the (obviously very important) aircraft models and user interfaces. I am so dissapointed that nobody on DTG side is seriously talking about making a profound change to the simulated world that we should fly in, so it looks much more realistic and does not use the ground tile logic as FSX. You could have a flight model as good as you may dream of, but as soon as you look out the window and look at a landscape that looks like a poor quality cartoon picture...well, that really spoils the fun as to the point to set the sim aside and forget it. Think of the landings, how important landscape references are to the pilot!

      To tell you the truth, IMHO the way I have my FSX set up, it looks much better and more realistic that anything I have seen with XP11 or this seamlingly low budget, poor quality FSW. With a few add-ons and a fairly good computer we already have more than this in FSX "new" FSW offers. And my FSX performs quite well and smooth, even though I don't have a newest generation power PC.

      (X-Plane 11 Fans: Please don't be angry with me. It is just my personal view that if you look at certain egdes and landscapes in X-Plane it all seams to me as if were made of thin paper...just my subjectiv optionen. Even though I must admit the flight model is fantastic and the aircraft look breath-taking, sloped runways and all....yes, quite nice indeed.)

      DTG: Take my word - Just like flight school, this is going to be a commercial flop, if you don't change the look and feel of this product dramatically from what it is in this early release stage. To even ask money for such a poor product is a slap in the face for every serious flight sim fan.

      There are many new "Simulated World" engines out there, that could be used as a basis for a more realistic world, and I am sure DTG know this very well. Why they are still sticking to the "old school" scenery engine is beyond my comprehension. Are they aiming for a flop on purpose?
    1. RatRace's Avatar
      RatRace -
      Quote Originally Posted by rdrumm26 View Post
      (X-Plane 11 Fans: Please don't be angry with me. It is just my personal view that if you look at certain egdes and landscapes in X-Plane it all seams to me as if were made of thin paper...just my subjectiv optionen. Even though I must admit the flight model is fantastic and the aircraft look breath-taking, sloped runways and all....yes, quite nice indeed.)
      I am not mad, but since (I assume) you are not using FSX "out-of-the-box" scenery either (?), a more fair comparison would be to XP11 with alPilotX's mesh scenery or Ortho4XP scenery. Both do make a difference.

      Whatever, we both agree that scenery in FSW indeed does look like a "poor quality cartoon picture", in spite of Orbx's contribution. BTW, a real disgrace to Orbx if you ask me.
    1. rdrumm26's Avatar
      rdrumm26 -
      Quote Originally Posted by RatRace View Post
      I am not mad, but since (I assume) you are not using FSX "out-of-the-box" scenery either (?), a more fair comparison would be to XP11 with alPilotX's mesh scenery or Ortho4XP scenery. Both do make a difference.

      Whatever, we both agree that scenery in FSW indeed does look like a "poor quality cartoon picture", in spite of Orbx's contribution. BTW, a real disgrace to Orbx if you ask me.
      RatRace, I fully agree....and yes, I spent a fortune to make my FSX the way it is today and also programmed many sceneries myself. That is why I am so reluctant to change. I like my FSX nowadays :-)
    1. ricardo_NY1's Avatar
      ricardo_NY1 -
      Anyone who heard the dovetail people speak at the conventions should know where FSW was or is heading. It was like hearing a lawyer being interrogated trying to get them to answer questions about their sim. Meanwhile, it was oohs and aahs when Austin was talking about XP.
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