Distance from user plane in spot view-- quicker adjustment available?

[b3burner]

The one thing I lament in transitioning from FS9 to FSX in the past couple of months is the loss of this neat little window:

 

 

I had gotten so used to seeing it, I just miss it dearly. It was so easy to quickly adjust the spot plane's relative distance, altitude, and direction from the user plane. I wonder why in FSX they felt it was no longer important?

 

Anyway, I struggled to play around with the view keys on the keyboard until I eventually found the equivalent for changing this.

 

Now first off, just to clarify-- I know the "minus" and "equal sign" keys control zoom in and zoom out but understand I don't want to zoom. I know that's just getting a tighter or wider shot of the plane, but the PHYSICAL position of the camera (spot plane) remains the same. What I want to do is move the physical camera in and out toward or away from the plane.

 

So I found the commands "Ctrl + Minus" and "Ctrl + Equals", and yes that works. But ohhhhh sooooo painfully slow. I could seriously grow a Duck Dynasty beard in the time it takes to move my spot plane camera view forward or back the length of a 747!

 

At least in FS9 I had that "F1 View" mouse wheel & camera control where I could quickly alter the distance of the camera in and out, without even having to use the settings box in the picture above... but alas, F1 View doesn't work in FSX. So I'm stuck.

 

Without using addons and extra docked cameras, does anybody know if there's a way to alter the settings in the FSX Cameras.CFG file or the fsx.cfg file; where I can make those Ctrl/minus and Ctrl/equals commands move a bit faster?

 

And also, while we're on the related subject, anyway to adjust pan speed in 2D cockpit view so it moves faster up and down and left and right on my hat switch? In FS9, I could set the "PAN_RATE=" to a speed in the FS9.cfg that would whip around like a rat in a drainpipe. But in FSX I seem to recall trying to add a pan_rate line in the fsx.cfg file, and it didn't seem to make much difference-- if any at all. The 3D cockpit pan is actually quite quicker, and I want the two to be about the same speed.

 

Bear in mind, I just really started using and getting into FSX in January, so this is still all relatively new to me. Feature-wise I really am still of the FS9 mindset, and unlearning those things I took for granted will be a hard habit to break.

 

Thank you,

 

-- John

[beany_bot]

I'm not sure how It happened to be but when I plugged my joystick into FSX it automatically assigned the moving of the spot view to the little analogue joystick on the top of my actual joystick. very easy to sweep around the airplane with free will. There must be a way of allocating the same action to say the mouse.

[b3burner]

I'm not sure how It happened to be but when I plugged my joystick into FSX it automatically assigned the moving of the spot view to the little analogue joystick on the top of my actual joystick. very easy to sweep around the airplane with free will. There must be a way of allocating the same action to say the mouse.

Yes, I agree hat switch assignment to sweep around the plane tends to be automatic without special install (plug-and-play as it were). That is not the issue, though I thank you for the suggestion. I believe there might be sweep control with the mouse as well, though I haven't tried it yet. It's mouse wheel function for control that I think is missing. I will keep on trying.

[beany_bot]

I wish you luck. What could be a cool idea. Buy an old school trackball dirt cheap from eBay and assign that to camera movement. Could be nice.

[llivaudais]

You can find all the details to 'manage' how your camera views work in the SDK (installed or on-line) but just as a sample, here is a few of my organized camera definitions. Compare to yours and see what's missing:

 

 

;-------------------------------------------

[CameraDefinition.001]

Title = Cockpit 2D

Guid = {B1386D92-4782-4682-A137-738E25D1BAB5}

Description = 2D cockpit view

Origin = Cockpit

Track = None

Category = Cockpit

 

SnapPbhAdjust = Ordinal

SnapPbhReturn = False

PanPbhAdjust = Swivel // ordinal

PanPbhReturn = False // True

 

PitchPanRate=5

HeadingPanRate=15

PanAcceleratorTime=0

 

AllowZoom = TRUE

InitialZoom = 1.0 // "reset level"

SmoothZoomTime = 0 // instantaneous transition

ZoomPanScalar = 0 // zps/zoom

 

XyzAdjust = TRUE // I can move the camera ref point

;XyzRate = 0.25 // m/sec default rate

XyzRate = 1.0

 

ShowAxis = FrontOnly

ShowLensFlare=FALSE

ShowPanel = Yes

ShowWeather = Yes

 

MomentumEffect = FALSE

Transition = No // between views "logic AND"

HotKeySelect=1

CycleHidden=Yes

 

;-------------------------------------------

[CameraDefinition.002]

Title = Virtual Cockpit

Guid = {C95EAB58-9E4A-4E2A-A34C-D8D9D948F078}

Description = This is the description of the virtual cockpit view.

Origin = Virtual Cockpit

Track = None

Category = Cockpit

 

SnapPbhAdjust = Ordinal

SnapPbhReturn = True

PanPbhAdjust = Swivel

PanPbhReturn = False

 

PitchPanRate=15

HeadingPanRate=45

PanAcceleratorTime=0

 

AllowZoom = TRUE

InitialZoom = 0.9

SmoothZoomTime = 0

ZoomPanScalar = 1.0

 

XyzAdjust = TRUE

XyzRate = 0.25 // m/sec default rate

xyzAccelleratorTime = 0

 

ShowWeather = Yes

ShowLensFlare=FALSE

ShowAxis = YES

Transition = No

CycleHidden=No

MomentumEffect = No

HotKeySelect=2

 

;-------------------------------------------

[CameraDefinition.003]

Title = Laggy Spot

Guid = {BCA3FDD1-FB83-4BBA-8407-4922A7F0D00C}

Description = This is the description of the spot view.

Origin = Center

Track = FlatChase

Category = Outside

 

SnapPbhAdjust = Ordinal

SnapPbhReturn = False

PanPbhAdjust = Swivel

PanPbhReturn = False

 

PitchPanRate = 20

HeadingPanRate = 45

PanAcceleratorTime = 0

 

AllowZoom = Yes

InitialZoom = 0.90

SmoothZoomTime = 0

ZoomPanScalar = 0

 

XyzAdjust = FALSE

XyzRate = 5 //0.025

xyzAccelleratorTime = 0

 

ShowAxis = No

ShowLensFlare = True

ShowWeather = Yes

Transition = No

 

ClipMode = Spot

MomentumEffect = No

CycleHidden = True

 

;-------------------------------------------

[CameraDefinition.004]

Title = Locked Spot

Guid = {BCA3FDD1-FB83-4BBA-8407-4922A7F0D00D}

Description = This is the description of the locked spot view.

Origin = Center

Track = FlatChaseLocked

Category = Outside

 

SnapPbhAdjust = Ordinal

SnapPbhReturn = False

PanPbhAdjust = Swivel

PanPbhReturn = False

 

PitchPanRate=15

HeadingPanRate=45

PanAcceleratorTime=0

 

AllowZoom = Yes

InitialZoom = 1.0

SmoothZoomTime = 0

 

XyzAdjust = TRUE

XyzRate = 10

xyzAccelleratorTime = 0

 

ShowAxis = No

ShowWeather = Yes

ShowLensFlare = TRUE

 

Transition = No

ClipMode = Spot

MomentumEffect = No

HotKeySelect=3

 

[CameraDefinition.007]

Title = Nearest Tower

Guid = {60BC0819-BD04-4AF6-8954-8FC8AA3545FF}

Description = This is the description of the tower view.

Origin = Tower

Track = Track

Category = Tower

 

SnapPbhAdjust = Ordinal

SnapPbhReturn = False

PanPbhAdjust = Swivel

PanPbhReturn = False

 

PitchPanRate=15

HeadingPanRate=30

PanAcceleratorTime=0

zoompanscalar = 2

 

AllowZoom = Yes

InitialZoom = 2.0

SmoothZoomTime = 0

 

XyzAdjust = TRUE // MY towers are MOVABLE

XyzRate = 5.0 // at 5 m/sec

xyzAccelleratorTime = 0

 

ShowAxis = No

ShowWeather = Yes

ShowLensFlare=FALSE

 

Transition = No

ClipMode = Tower

NoSortTitle = True

 

;-------------------------------------------

[CameraDefinition.008]

Title = Facilities Tower

Guid = {AA8C80C0-9EE2-4284-A1C2-B20CD3F5F3D9}

Description = Other Towers

Origin = Fixed

Track = Track

Category = Tower

CycleHideRadius = 10

InstancedBased = Yes

 

;SnapPbhAdjust = None

;PanPbhAdjust = None

SnapPbhAdjust = Ordinal // add

SnapPbhReturn = False // add

PanPbhAdjust = Swivel // add

PanPbhReturn = False // add

 

PitchPanRate=15

HeadingPanRate=30

PanAcceleratorTime=0

 

AllowZoom = Yes

InitialZoom = 2.0

SmoothZoomTime = 0

zoompanscalar = 2

 

XyzAdjust = TRUE // false

XyzRate = 5.0

xyzAccelleratorTime = 0

 

ShowAxis = No

ShowLensFlare=FALSE

ShowWeather = Yes

 

Transition = No

ClipMode = Tower

 

;------ FS9 Fixed heading added -----------------------

[CameraDefinition.012]

Title = "Fixed Heading"

Guid = {BFAB347E-8B9C-4189-A427-89D9682D7A53}

Description = Global Fixed spot view.

Origin = Center

Track = FixedChaseLocked

Category = Outside

 

SnapPbhAdjust = Ordinal

SnapPbhReturn = False

PanPbhAdjust = Swivel

PanPbhReturn = False

 

PitchPanRate=15

HeadingPanRate = 45

PanAcceleratorTime = 0

 

AllowZoom = Yes

InitialZoom = 1.0

zoompanscalar = 1

SmoothZoomTime = 0

 

XyzAdjust = True

XyzRate = 50.0 // faster chase distance setting

 

ShowAxis = No

ShowLensFlare = TRUE

ShowWeather = Yes

 

Transition = No

ClipMode = Spot

MomentumEffect = FALSE

 

Adjust your features however you wish.

 

Note: Camera.cfg edited while FSX NOT running.

Similar Cameras in the Aircraft.cfg itself can be edited, the aircraft reloaded and tested on-the-fly.

 

Have fun with it.

 

Loyd

[napamule2]

Cheesh. All you have available that 'works' is (HOLD right 'Ctrl' then press & HOLD '-'). You can put right hand thumb on 'Ctrl' then index finger on '-' key. Holding will move the eyepoint nearer in locked spot view. Then save a flight to 'keep' that distance. At any rate it's no biggee to do that everytime you load a plane. I do it. Part of start up routine.

Chuck B

Napamule

[pvarn]

When switching to spot view what's wrong with swiveling with the hat switch and +,- to zoom in and out? There are so many ways to skin the view cat in FSX. I do not miss the FS9 view options at all. FSX views are far more flexible and so many more of them.

By default, you even have two types of spot to work with.

 

If the problem is snapping to a view distance and orientation every time you start the flight, as already suggested, creating some CameraDefintions or some saved flights with your various views pre-configured solves that.

 

-Pv-

[jandjfrench]

Hi b3,

EDIT: Please ignore the following drivel. I've been re-assigning all my controls and your reference to how slow the view distance changed led me astray. I find that using control with the other keys moves the view fairly fast. My problem has been with the slowness of moving the eyepoint.

 

Perhaps I'm missing something here (I'm only referring to your first post) but with the focus on the screen pressing the minus and equal keys on the keyboard changes the view distance rapidly. This assumes you haven't redefined them. Holding down Ctrl with the keys allows fine adjustment. In conjunction with the hat switch going to any view distance and perspective should be simple. In the preview window using the mouse and scroll wheel accomplishes the same thing. If you've selected another function (such as rate) the minus and equal keys will effect that. Clicking on the main view will restore control to chase distance.

Jim F.

[Mark Hurst]

So I found the commands "Ctrl + Minus" and "Ctrl + Equals", and yes that works. But ohhhhh sooooo painfully slow.

 

Map them to buttons with max repeat, that works well for me. Or hold the keys down. (Speed of the latter will depend on your keyboard settings.)

[StringBean]

Right next to your FSX.cfg is the cameras.cfg.

 

Open it with Notepad and find...

 

[CameraDefinition.002]

Title = Virtual Cockpit

 

...and in that section...

 

PitchPanRate=30

HeadingPanRate=75

 

Increase those values to increase pan rate in the VC.

 

As for the Spot View, the initial camera distance from the plane is set in the .mdl file.

 

You can change this with a tool called RADItor which you can get here- http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/resources/categories/aircraft-design.2/

 

peace,

the Bean

[napamule2]

Jim,

If you use the '-' and '+' keys you are ZOOMING and not moving the eyepoint. Zooming in spot view will cause paralax (distrotion due to magnification) and you won't be able to judge distance (like when flying a helicopter in locked spot view). And if you mix that with 'Ctrl+'-'' you get a really mess up your spot view. In VC view you CAN use '-' and '+' keys with out messing up your view.

 

Setting up ac on initial loading takes 10 seconds, then you save flight. Done. You can play with the aircraft cfg's views and your cameras.cfg but that don't 'fix' the eyepoint (ie: camera distance) on initial load of ac, due to model, as Bean says. I just use 'Ctrl + '-' or '+' and I go fly. If you press 'Ctrl+Space' the distance will be reset, so only use 'Backspace' (reset zoom to 1X) and mouse move (spacebar+mouse). Maybe next sim will revert to FS9 sytle for 'View/View Options'.

Chuck B

Napamule

[jandjfrench]

Hey Chuck,

Shortly after I posted I realized my error and added the disclaimer to the beginning of my post. I hate it when I read something in a post, check it out, and then go back to the post and find that it's been edited so that the original statement is missing.

Mark's suggestion of assigning the Chase Distance adjustment to Control keys and choosing the max repeat rate sounds promising but I haven't tried it.

Jim F.

[b3burner]

When switching to spot view what's wrong with swiveling with the hat switch?....

Pv, The swivel is not the issue. That does work fine with the hat switch rotation. I agree with you there. It's camera "spot view distance from user plane" or "chase distance" (whatever its proper name is-- I don't exactly know) that is the problem.

 

....And [what's wrong with] +,- to zoom in and out?

The issue is not "zoom". I was afraid the distinction between "zoom" and "camera distance from the subject" was going to become a source of confusion. I completely agree with you that + and – for zoom in and zoom out are correct and work perfectly fine, however in this post my consideration is adjustment of "distance".

 

Consider a camera shot with a 200 foot distance away from your plane and a zoom level of 1.00 and take a screenshot. Then get a shot with a 400 foot distance away from your plane with a zoom level of 2.00 and take a screenshot. Then compare the two. In both cases the airplane looks about the same size on your screen because doubling the zoom offsets the doubling of the distance away from the subject. But the background in the screenshot in the 400/2.00 shot will look bigger with a narrower horizontal field of vision, and the ground that the plane is sitting on will have a narrower depth of field and will appear to be more distorted.

Therefore, it is invalid to say that "zoom" and "distance" are the same thing, or are interchangeable concepts.

 

There are so many ways to skin the view cat in FSX.

I'm sure there are, but I'm not trying to come up with band-aids and fixes by adding different cameras and creating preset flights from different distances. I want to be able to increase the distance in and out rate of the [Ctrl] + [-] and the [Ctrl] + [=] keys so that they move faster. I like the default keys... I just want them to move faster. And the reason for this is I may want to change my distance from my aircraft in spot view-- while I'm in the middle of a flight. I don't necessarily want to load a different preset flight-- just to get a different distance.

 

I do not miss the FS9 view options at all.

I respect your right to have a different opinion, but really... it was just one simple box that quantified distance, altitude, and direction in an easy to adjust format. If I wanted to be exactly 550 feet away from my plane and 25 feet off the ground, I just dialed it in numerically, and boom... I was done! I guess I am a man of exact numbers. And it's not like it took up much space. What was the harm in just leaving it there, in the transition from FS9 to FSX?

 

FSX views are far more flexible and so many more of them. By default, you even have two types of spot to work with.

I completely agree with you. And in terms of flexibility, you're right. And FSX offers a camera.cfg... something that FS9 didn't come close to. But I need a computer science degree to know how to program it, and I'm not quite there yet! I think the simple little box (for those of us bringing up the rear on the learning curve), and the more complex coded camera.cfg-- for those who are ready to take on that challenge, would have been a nice compromise of both worlds. My point is, what harm would there have been to include both?

 

If the problem is snapping to a view distance and orientation every time you start the flight, as already suggested, creating some CameraDefintions or some saved flights with your various views pre-configured solves that.

Point well taken, but that to me is a band-aid to the solution, instead of addressing the real problem I brought up... which is how to make those key commands move faster? But I appreciate your advice on that part. You and Chuck were sort of in the same camp regarding that suggestion. Until I ultimately figure out a solution to the slow movement with the default key settings for that parameter, I probably will set up various presets at different distances in spot view.

 

Thank you for your input,

 

-- John

[b3burner]

Map them to buttons with max repeat

Okay Mark... this sounds very promising... but you totally lost me here. First off what do you mean by "map them to buttons"? Is that the same as "assign them to keys"? They are already assigned to keys. By default, they are assigned to the [Ctrl] + [-] and the [Ctrl] + [=] keys. Are you suggesting they need to be mapped elsewhere?

 

And then what is "max repeat"? I've never heard of that term before, but it sounds fast whatever it is, so you have my undivided attention! LOL

 

that works well for me. Or hold the keys down. (Speed of the latter will depend on your keyboard settings.)

 

"Or hold the keys down"-- Well that's the problem. I can hold the keys down til next Christmas, and the distance change in spot view is very slow. It seems to make no difference if it's a quick hit or a continuous one.

 

"Speed of the latter depends on the keyboard settings". What keyboard settings? In the fsx.cfg? I notice there aren't nearly as many keyboard mapping settings in the FSX.cfg, as there were in the FS9.cfg; so what are my limitations and where do I need to go?

[b3burner]

You can find all the details to 'manage' how your camera views work in the SDK (installed or on-line) but just as a sample, here is a few of my organized camera definitions. Compare to yours and see what's missing:

 

Lloyd,

 

I saw your camera defs in your camera.cfg that you listed. I will make a copy and move my default out (backing it up of course) and move yours in, and see how it goes. A more thorough read of the SDK might help me understand some concepts that are foreign to me. Maybe somewhere I'll find a speed command for camera distance in the spot view... and an ability to accelerate it more quickly. That is my ultimate goal.

 

Thanks,

 

-- John

[jandjfrench]

Hey b3,

I tried assigning "Chase View increase" to a controller key and set the repeat rate at maximum. I couldn't detect any difference in speed between this and the keyboard; well it's very close in any event.

As String mentioned, I too believe that the initial spot view distance is a function of MDL file data. As such I don't think that various spot view distances can be preset. It seems likely that if a flight was saved with the desired spot view distance might work. And new cameras could be created for views at various distances but I don't readily see that they coud function similarly to spot view.

Jim F.

[jandjfrench]

Chase view distance is not saved with a flight.

[b3burner]

Jim,

 

Okay thanks for checking that out. I wasn't completely clear on a button vs. a key assignment, so I'm glad you got that squared away. So no difference you say? And even more interstsing is that you say there is no way to preset a distance from an airpolane, as the spot view distance is more likely than not (as Bean said) a function of the .mdl file.

 

So now I'm most likely really dependent on studying the SDK in depth and discovering for myself the line that will allow that parameter to move faster, via those key assignments.

 

This will most likely be hit and miss. Or if I care that much about changing my flight distance on the fly, I will just use FS9 instead, in those instances.

 

-- John

[b3burner]

Right next to your FSX.cfg is the cameras.cfg.

 

Open it with Notepad and find...

 

[CameraDefinition.002]

Title = Virtual Cockpit

 

...and in that section...

 

PitchPanRate=30

HeadingPanRate=75

 

Increase those values to increase pan rate in the VC.

 

As for the Spot View, the initial camera distance from the plane is set in the .mdl file.

 

You can change this with a tool called RADItor which you can get here- http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/resources/categories/aircraft-design.2/

 

peace,

the Bean

 

Thank you, will give both of these a try. The VC cockpit settings will be especially helpful I think.

[StringBean]

Chase view distance is not saved with a flight.

 

It is for me...

 

cameras.cfg...

[CameraDefinition.004]

Title = Locked Spot

Guid = {BCA3FDD1-FB83-4BBA-8407-4922A7F0D00D}

 

saved flight...

[Camera.1.8]

Guid={BCA3FDD1-FB83-4BBA-8407-4922A7F0D00D}

Zoom=1

Translation=0, 0, 0

ChaseDirection=53.646240234375

ChaseDistance=148

ChaseAltitude=3.8583984375

[jandjfrench]

Did you try it? I set the chase distance far removed from the default, saved the flight as default, restarted FSX and the disatnce was back to the default. I don't think I missed anything but if your results are, in fact, different I'll check again.

[Jim Robinson]

I find I have to load a flight twice to get the distance to "take" but it does seem to be saved in the flight. I also find Ctrl+minus is quicker than reloading the flight, lol.

[jandjfrench]

I seldom leave the VC when I'm flying so all this is pretty academic to me. But here's what I see:

From the Load Flight preview screen showing the saved distance:

 

And when the flight is loaded:

 

Second time the Flight was loaded after re-starting FSX.

[Mark Hurst]

what do you mean by "map them to buttons"? ... And then what is "max repeat"...What keyboard settings?

 

In options/settings/controls you can map functions to joystick buttons as well as (or instead of) keys on the keyboard. When you map a joystick button you can set how fast it repeats if you hold it down.

 

Keyboard repeat delay and repeat rate can be set in Windows Control Panel under 'keyboard'.

[Jim Robinson]

Second time the Flight was loaded after re-starting FSX.

 

It works for me but I usually save flights with the eyepoint moved closer rather than farther from the aircraft so maybe that's the difference. Also I always start the sim by double clicking an FSSAVE rather than going through the menus. Identical behavior in P3D2 incidentally. It also seems that any flight I load after loading the first one loads with the correct saved spot distance providing it was saved in spot view, I don't necessarily have to reload the same flight.