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Difference between Arrival, Transition, and Approach?


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What's the difference between them? For example, in MSFS an airport may have different Arrivals. How are these selected in MSFS and in real-life? 

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Transitions connect a point in the enroute structure with a point on the approach chart. Often vectors are given by ATC to effect this change, but in the case of lost communication the transition is what gets you from Low or High altitude IFR charts to the approach chart.

Always Aviate, then Navigate, then Communicate. And never be low on Fuel, Altitude, Airspeed, or Ideas.

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On 3/18/2023 at 3:49 PM, PhrogPhlyer said:

Transitions connect a point in the enroute structure with a point on the approach chart. Often vectors are given by ATC to effect this change, but in the case of lost communication the transition is what gets you from Low or High altitude IFR charts to the approach chart.


Thank you. So it's...?

1. Departure Procedure (aka SID), TRANSITION, to En-route 
2. Arrival (aka STAR), TRANSITION, to Approach

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6 hours ago, oneleg said:

Thank you. So it's...?

1. Departure Procedure (aka SID), TRANSITION, to En-route 
2. Arrival (aka STAR), TRANSITION, to Approach

In the simplest sense, yes, with one minor enhancement. In addition to a formal transition (one needing a published procedure SID/STAR or specific directions from ATC) you may also keep just plan your flight without those; i.e. T/O direct to a fix on an airway that ends at a fix that is part of a published approach. Always plan your route so that it will work T/O to Landing without needing ATC controller involvement, just in case of loss of communications.

Always Aviate, then Navigate, then Communicate. And never be low on Fuel, Altitude, Airspeed, or Ideas.

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Thank you. How do you know if ATC communication is required to use an airport?  And what happens if you ignore an ATC requirement or miss an ATC communication. Do they report you to the FAA? When are you required to file a flight plan? Can you deviate from a flight plan and what happens when you change flight plans mid-flight?

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33 minutes ago, oneleg said:

Thank you. How do you know if ATC communication is required to use an airport?  And what happens if you ignore an ATC requirement or miss an ATC communication. Do they report you to the FAA? When are you required to file a flight plan? Can you deviate from a flight plan and what happens when you change flight plans mid-flight?

Best to take each of these one at a time, 

1) When is ATC communications required? Basically, you must communicate with ATC for all IFR operations, and to operate in Class A, B, C, and D airspace for both IFR and VFR operations, What is required to be communicated varies based upon the airspace and the operation (IFR vs VFR). 

2) What happens if you ignore ATC requirements or miss ATC communications? Ignoring any ATC requirement or clearance would be considered reckless operation, and is a sign of extreme unprofessionalism as well as being unsafe. Missing a communication or even misunderstanding what was said can occur, but ATC will do everything possible to reestablish communications and ensure clear understanding by you the pilot. Also, if you are not sure of what was said, ask for it to be repeated. 

3) When are you required to file a flight  plan? All IFR operations must have a flight plan, and the flight is flown following clearance from ATC. It is recommended to file a flight plan for VRF, but is not a requirement. A prudent aviator will file for any flight beyond your airport normal operating area. Think of the flight plan as life insurance, if you were not to arrive one hour after your planned arrival, the ATC system starts looking for you.

4) Can you deviate from a flight plan? Yes, as long as ATC is informed. For IFR the deviation is done as a request through ATC. For VFR, contact the local FSS on the radio and inform them of the modification.

Keep in mind that what I just wrote is a very simplified explanation.  The Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM) is a great starting point to gain a solid understanding of these basics. https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html/

 

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Always Aviate, then Navigate, then Communicate. And never be low on Fuel, Altitude, Airspeed, or Ideas.

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6 hours ago, oneleg said:

Thank you!

You are most welcome. Feel free to ask away whenever you need assistance.

Always Aviate, then Navigate, then Communicate. And never be low on Fuel, Altitude, Airspeed, or Ideas.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Are chandelle and lazy eight maneuvers allowed in GA planes eg. Just Flight's PA-28 Arrow?  How about in real life? I read the Just Flight manual for the plane but I'm probably missing something since It is not clear if it is allowed or not allowed. 

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5 hours ago, oneleg said:

Are chandelle and lazy eight maneuvers allowed in GA planes

 

Yes they are allowed (US FAA). The chandelle and lazy eight are referred to as the "commercial maneuvers" and must be demonstrated as part of the Commercial Pilot certification check ride. These maneuvers both demonstrate the skills necessary to fly each maneuver to its prescribed standard, improve a pilot's airmanship, and reinforce skills necessary for flying safely. 

These are non-aerobatic and when done correctly are fun and demonstrates your smooth control of the aircraft.

 

The below is from Aviation Safety Magazine, Published: September 26, 2006 and Updated: October 29, 2019

Chandelle

The chandelle was created early in World War I as one of the first air combat maneuvers. Then, the objective was for a pilot to get the smallest possible turning radius to wheel in on an enemy or to escape a bandit at his six o'clock position. Today, we teach and learn the chandelle to develop pilot coordination, planning and accuracy during a turning maneuver that takes us from mid- to high-cruise speed (depending on the airplane flown) to flight at minimum controllable airspeed.

Some feel that the test of a good chandelle is the amount of altitude gained during the turn. Airplane performance capability and environmental conditions, however, may limit the amount of altitude increase that results from a chandelle. More important is the quality and timing of the turn; note that the PTS doesn't even mention altitude gain as an objective, instead focusing on elements of pitch, bank and airspeed control.

 

The real-world lessons from the chandelle include:

  • Fine control of the rudder with changes of pitch, bank, angle of attack and airspeed-good for stall avoidance during all maneuvering, and handy also to obtain maximum performance with an engine out in a twin.
  • Timing of roll-in and rollout to achieve wings level on a prescribed heading-a good skill for precise airport traffic patterns and in instrument flight.
  • Minimum Controllable Airspeed as a function of a given power setting and a predictable pitch attitude-translatable to getting maximum climb performance while avoiding power-on stalls during a short-field takeoff or a go-around over obstacles.

Lazy 8

The chandelle teaches us to avoid rolling and pitching at the same time. The lesson is valid for large bank and pitch excursions like we see in the chandelle maneuver. The Lazy 8, on the other hand, shows us that we can safely pitch and roll at the same time, so long as we severely limit the rate of change in both axes. Where the chandelle is a rambunctious, macho maneuver of bank then pull, the Lazy 8 is a more graceful exercise in aircraft control.

Begin a very low rate of roll at the same time you initiate a slow rate of pitch change; gradually increase both simultaneously until you reach a maximum pitch when halfway to the maximum bank, then lower pitch as you continue to increase bank. The first quarter of a Lazy 8, then, results in increasing bank and pitch for the first 45 degrees of turn, followed by shallowing pitch with increasing bank for the second 45 degrees.

From here, pitch continues slowly down, below the horizon, while bank slowly decreases for another 45 degrees of turn, then slowly rising pitch while bank angle continues to decrease until the airplane is level in both pitch and bank just as it has turned a full 180 degrees. This is halfway through the maneuver; repeat with an initial pitch up and a shallow bank in the opposite direction.

Challenging to describe on paper, the Lazy 8 is a graceful maneuver to watch and to fly. As the Airplane Flying Handbook (AFH) puts it, the Lazy 8 “is a maneuver designed to develop perfect coordination of controls through a wide range of airspeeds and altitudes so that certain accuracy points are reached with planned altitude and airspeed…. It is the only standard flight training maneuver during which at no time do the forces on the controls remain constant.”

As such, the Lazy 8 may be the ultimate graduation test of a seasoned (non-aerobatic) pilot. The hardest part, in my opinion, is the small control inputs required to successfully fly the maneuver-its far easier to make large control inputs that wont cut it in the Lazy 8.

 

Some other “real world” lessons from the Lazy 8:

  • Rapid integration of visual and instrument flight-you cant bank five degrees or adjust pitch by three degrees entirely with the horizon, while you cant adjust your maneuver to roll out referring to ground references on instruments. The Lazy 8 requires including visual and panel references in your scan.
  • Rudder coordination as instinct, not in response to the slip-skid indicator.
  • Using rudder not as you may expect it, but as you need it-in many airplanes it takes as much left rudder in a descent as it takes right rudder in a climb. Most pilots arent used to pressing on the left pedal…but there may be times when it is needed and we need to be willing to do so.

Always Aviate, then Navigate, then Communicate. And never be low on Fuel, Altitude, Airspeed, or Ideas.

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Nice explanation. Thank you.

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You are most welcome. Now get out there and practice! 

Always Aviate, then Navigate, then Communicate. And never be low on Fuel, Altitude, Airspeed, or Ideas.

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@PhrogPhlyerI am, I am! 🙂

Got a bunch of questions.

I'm learning complex aircraft. I have a question regarding the blue propeller lever. Probably a "which comes first, the chicken or egg" question?


When the blue lever is pushed forward:
1. Does it increase RPM first which in turn decreases the pitch or angle of the propeller, or
2. Does it decrease the pitch or angle of the propeller which in turn results in increased RPM?
---
3 How do propeller planes get reverse thrust eg. the TBM 930 in MSFS.  Does the propeller reverse or spin 'backwards' or is it controlled by the pitch of the propeller blades?
4. What is the difference between the blue lever called a 'propeller' lever and the 'conditioner' (in the TBM 930). What are the advantages or disadvantages in each?
5. Separate topic: is there an airplane gauge that measures the average gallons fuel consumed on a real-time basis like you would find in current SUV or family car? What is it called?
6. Is the goal of a good pilot to minimize the angle of attack of a plane as much as possible?
7. Is the goal of a good pilot to keep the ball centered at all times?
8. How is the field elevation of a runway measured in the cockpit?



 

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That's quite a list of questions.

Let me review and then give concise usable responses.

You're making me work now!  

Putting on a fresh pot of coffee for this one.

Always Aviate, then Navigate, then Communicate. And never be low on Fuel, Altitude, Airspeed, or Ideas.

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Thank you. I like theory and practice.

"In theory there shouldn't be a difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is a difference."

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