miatamariner Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Using the stock bgl for MYGF, when I select Approach on the AP, the aircraft captures the GS and turns towards runway 06. However, as the AC gets closer to the runway, it is obvious that the ILS and the runway are not aligned. Allowing the AC to follow the ILS has it touching down to the right of the runway by a good runway width. Checking the bgl using ADE, all appears to be in order with alignment. I used two different AC and autopilots to see if it was just related to one specific AC. Doesn't appear to be. Would someone try this approach and confirm or deny that it is an FSX problem or is it just my set up? ILS frequency is 109.70 for runway 06. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnuss Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 I can't find any real world instrument approaches to MYGF, though there is a VOR on the field on 113.2 MHz, and an NDB almost 5 miles NE of the field. I don't know whether your ILS may be an add-on or perhaps it's just a localizer? Larry N. As Skylab would say: Remember: Aviation is NOT an exact Science! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miatamariner Posted September 30, 2017 Author Share Posted September 30, 2017 Thanks Larry: I doubled checked the stock bgl once again using ADE and it does list 109.70 Ident IZFP as the localiser frequency. Alignment of the markers are right on target. I just can't figure out why the AC AP follows a path to touch down which is well right of the runway. Seeing that this is the stock bgl for MYGF, according to ADE, I would assume the frequency would have been assigned by MS. The bgl is APX27220. What does your entry show? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomTweak Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 I know a couple others that are off-set as well. Moffet Field, in Mountain View, CA, NAS Pensacola, Pensacola FL, and NAS Widbey Island, Oak Harbour, WA. Check them out for your-self. I am sure the list goes on. Some ILS are offset from the runway. You have to know this and guide the aircraft, at least horizontally, manually, or you land to one side of the runway. It's just the "way things are", as the saying goes. Check the approach plates carefully. Know your airport and it's quirks. And land easy! Pat☺ [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Had a thought...then there was the smell of something burning, and sparks, and then a big fire, and then the lights went out! I guess I better not do that again! Sgt, USMC, 10 years proud service, Inactive reserve now :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il88pp Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Go to the airport in fs. Load there. On the runway. Look at your heading. Plane will be aligned with runway. Make note of the heading. Then look at the map data for it. menu bar--world--map. Look if the ils heading and the runway heading are he same. Not sure during approach? Difficult to check. RW heading is not in data on map-view. Maybe pause game, look up runway headingin ADE, and ILS heading on fsx map while near the airport. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il88pp Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 example: NICE-France-(LFMN) RW 4 L -hdg044- ILS hdg 045 RW 4 R -hdg044- ILS hgg 042 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miatamariner Posted October 1, 2017 Author Share Posted October 1, 2017 Thanks all. At least I know it was not my FSX set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrzippy Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Thanks all. At least I know it was not my FSX set up. Definitely not your set up! I even installed Art Poole's 2013 update for this airport. It still has the offset as sown in my screenshot. I am on the ILS runway 6 following the glideslope down and took the shot at about 2 miles out. I then turned off the A/P and hand flew the landing. This is what you need to do when there is an offset. Still thinking about a new flightsim only computer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miatamariner Posted October 1, 2017 Author Share Posted October 1, 2017 Definitely not your set up! I even installed Art Poole's 2013 update for this airport. It still has the offset as sown in my screenshot. I am on the ILS runway 6 following the glideslope down and too the shot at about 2 miles out. I then turned off the A/P and hand flew the landing. This is what you need to do when there is an offset. [ATTACH=CONFIG]199847[/ATTACH] Well, this now raises the question in my mind as to where the fault lies with offset ILS to runway headings. Is it with the Aces team way back when, or bad geographic data that nobody has corrected, or both! And what aircraft are you flying Mr. Zippy? The double vertical stabs peak my interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il88pp Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Isn't a fault. Real world's the same. Ils is offset for, obstacle clearance, noise abatement, or spacing approaches with parallel runway or other airport. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringBean Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 The stock runway heading is 60.94° while the ILS heading is 59.91°. That will explain the misalignment. Fixing it in ADE is simple if you wish to go that route. Or you could just do some fancy pilot sh*t and land the plane. As to whether the offset matches RW, I do not have access to any Bahamian charts to verify. peace, the Bean WWOD---What Would Opa Do? Farewell, my freind (sp) Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrzippy Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Well, this now raises the question in my mind as to where the fault lies with offset ILS to runway headings. Is it with the Aces team way back when, or bad geographic data that nobody has corrected, or both! And what aircraft are you flying Mr. Zippy? The double vertical stabs peak my interest. This be the puppy!;) FSX - FSX General Aviation FSX Beechcraft Model 18 Volpar Package Update [ Download | View ] Name: beechcraft_model_18_volpar_package.zip Size: 20,841,326 Date: 07-18-2015 Downloads: 1,527 FSX Beechcraft Model 18 Volpar Package Update. This is an update to the Brian Gladden Beechcraft Model 18 Volpar. The panels are updated with XML gauges replacing the .gau files. 2D and VC panels included. By Michael E. Roberts. Still thinking about a new flightsim only computer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il88pp Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 I don't have real world charts to compare either, and don't know what year charts ms used for data. But ILS's are quite often offset on purpose in real world. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f16jockey_2 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Checking the bgl using ADE, all appears to be in order with alignment. That's correct. Both in ADE (see pic) and on RW charts (from Navigraph, so I can't post due to copyright) ILS Z Rwy 06 has no offset at all. Should be straight in. How does this rhyme with the AP's behaviour, which definitely makes the plane come in at an angle (see MrZippy's pic, and I could post the same) ? Wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il88pp Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 f16, that green arrow don't look centred to me. It's further to the left then the right of 6. (zoomed in on image, can't judge angle, but it's off to the left. if because of angle, then ils hdg > rw hdg for rw6) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f16jockey_2 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 I'm not gonna argue centimeters or inches off center, but the angle is exactly the same. Open stock MYGF with ADE, look into the figures yourself, and tell me what justifies the kind of deviation we see. Please. Wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il88pp Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 I wasn't sure if angle or millimeters. Just looked at image. Won't load it in ade. Other stuff to do, sorry. But I did read what bean said. A few posts ago. He sees a different angle and looked at default just like you did. I don't understand. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f16jockey_2 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 But I did read what bean said. A few posts ago. He sees a different angle and looked at default just like you did. Interesting. Overlooked Bean's post somehow. Thing is that, other than Bean, I get the same angle for both runway and ILS. Now I'm really confused... Wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomTweak Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Could it be that the runway is given in magnetic heading, and the ILS is set up in true heading? There IS a 5° difference at that Lat/Long position... Just a possibility. Pat☺ [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Had a thought...then there was the smell of something burning, and sparks, and then a big fire, and then the lights went out! I guess I better not do that again! Sgt, USMC, 10 years proud service, Inactive reserve now :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f16jockey_2 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 No. Everything in ADE is true heading. BTW in that location the deviation is 7°W. Would that be the error, on a 3300m runway that would land you some 400 meters besides the runway. I would be happy to see Bean's numbers confirmed, that would explain it. I just don't see them myself. Wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il88pp Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Independent compare, "ADE 1.65", "load default airport", "MYGF": IK get same result as Bean. ILS heading 59.something RW heading: 60.something (see images) ILS heading: --- RW heading: Possibly f16 that you edited that default airport and straightened the ILS? (Seems unlikely you would fix an ILS and save it as the default file again, but maybe there's an option in ADE to do that(?) and you used it by accident(?). Guessing here. I'm not sure ADE has that option. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f16jockey_2 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Possibly f16 that you edited that default airport and straightened the ILS? (Seems unlikely you would fix an ILS and save it as the default file again, but maybe there's an option in ADE to do that(?) and you used it by accident(?). Guessing here. I'm not sure ADE has that option. After some investigation I found out what did this: the "NavAids Update" http://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids3.html Seems to have corrected the ILS for that (and other) airports. Now I need to find out why I still get that sh*t out of line approach. Thanks for the help. Wim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il88pp Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 No idea. I tried something from that site once. Probably the "north pole correction". Just to test for someone. I didn't fully understand the "Ils fixes". (long "additional info" link.). So did not try them. I'm fast running out of disk space and backup space, so didn't want to 'testinstall' it just to try. I had another look last night, but between the 'global' and also 'regional' fixes, I loose track of how to uninstall. Sorry I cc't be of more help. Hope you get the cause pinned down. It's extremely confusing as your Ade image says "ILS is fully default", while it clearly isn't. il. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringBean Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 It's extremely confusing as your Ade image says "ILS is fully default", while it clearly isn't. What it says is that the "ILS is stock", not fully default. What ADE is telling you when it says that "ILS is stock" is that it cannot be deleted. Adjusted? Yes. Deleted? No. Orphaned? Yes. As opposed to a user added ILS which can be deleted. Even an adjusted stock ILS will show up in ADE as "ILS is stock". peace, the Bean WWOD---What Would Opa Do? Farewell, my freind (sp) Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il88pp Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Ah, thank you. Clear. My misquote was because of typing while not viewing the thread. Thank you,:) il. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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