FSX KLGA ILS Rwy 13 problem

[jrodriguez]

The ILS approach to runway 13 picks up the localizer backcourse to runway 31, so it appears as a backcourse with no glide slope. Anyone encounter this problem?

[Rupert]

No,

 

I just shot it twice with my trusty Lear. Worked fine.

 

 

 

It had a little fight and had to crab as it was fighting a crosswind. But it did pretty well, I think. Shot B was taken just as I took over manually to complete the final, well below minimums.

[Rupert]

Your approach doesn't look even remotely acceptable at all!

On the first one you are far to the right of the runway and you still have an almost fully scale fly right deflection.

On the second one you even have a full scale fly right deflection!

 

Just tried the approach myself and although the LOC is unusable as the ILS is so horrible misaligned that you don't even reach the runway, the GS is working.

 

Thanks for your "valuable" input! Despite the left to right crosswind, which I mentioned. The 2nd shot which is almost on the center-line &, as I noted, is just before I disabled the APR. I'm sure you'll be shocked to know with almost no rudder input, I greased it onto the marks. :cool:

 

Unacceptable while also taking screenshots?? You must really be great!!!:p:p:p

[alverthein]

My FSX says the ILS freq is 108.50 with ILS heading of 133

[StringBean]

Several things happening here.

 

Unfortunately for us, the localizers for 13 and 31 share the same frequency.

 

You would need to listen to the Morse code ID to verify which one you are receiving if you are flying a plane that does not have the ID displayed as shown in Rupert's pic.

 

I suspect RW ops would only have one turned on at a time, we cannot do that in FSX without using multiple AFD files, or Afcads.

 

To add to the problem, by default all FSX localizers have back course enabled.

 

Another factor, which Rupert seems to have missed, is that the default localizer for 13 is 2.22 degrees off of the runway heading, which is incorrect. It should match the runway heading. In his first pic he is right of runway CL and his CDI shows him well left of the localizer.

 

I am sure he had no problems landing as depicted, I challenge him to do it while breaking out of the clouds at minimums with the CDI centered.

 

To the OP, you might look in the file library for a corrected LGA afcad or you could fix it yourself with Airport Design Editor.

 

With ADE it would be simple to both correctly align the localizer and turn off the back courses. You may still have issues caused by the shared frequency, that fix requires a bit more work that is not prudent if not needed.

 

peace,

the Bean

[mrzippy]

klga_pr_v_1.zip add the update also!

[napamule2]

Zip is 'off' until tomorrow 6 am (PDST). The zip is SCENERY not afcad, etc. The 'update' just adds a bridge that got left out.

Chuck B

Napamule

[jrodriguez]

Thanks StringBean, I will try you options.

[jrodriguez]

bbrz, I did observe what you said. I suppose it's a limitation on FSx.

[dnpaul]

I have had this type of issue with all 3 of the NY metro area airports, LGA, EWR, and JFK. For some reason, my planes always tune in the reciprocal ILS freq for the runways that use the same freq for reciprocal runways. I had to use ADE to program separate ILS freqs for each runway. I have never had this issue with any airports outside of the New York area, and I fly into dozens of airports that have 1 freq for reciprocal runways. No idea why this seems to happen in NYC only.

[jrodriguez]

I don't understand rwy 4 and 22 share the same frequency but I have no problems. Rwy 31 just localizer works also. Just on 13 localizer is pinned.

[dnpaul]

Noticed that the ILS always uses the correct direction and never the opposite one for me.

When passing the LOC antenna, the ILS automatically swaps the direction and it's the 'correct' one for the runway I'm approaching.

 

I know a lot of people report no problem with this, but every installation of FSX (and FSX-SE) that I have had on 3 different computers has had this issue. Perhaps it might have to do with the fact that I am flying vectors assigned to me by FSX built-in ATC, and many of those who report no trouble with this are doing something other than that.

[dnpaul]

This means that (without the ADE fix) you can't fly a single normal ILS because the LOC shows the reverse 'wrong' deflection and you never get the glideslope to show up?

 

Same problem when flying without ATC?

 

I never really experimented with trying it without ATC, because I wanted it to work the way I fly--which is with ATC.

 

But yes, what you describe is the case for me at LGA, EWR, and JFK. But only those three. I fly into dozens of other airports in several different countries, and have no problems with the single frequency ILS setups anywhere else.

 

And that has always been a problem for several different installations of FSX and FSX-SE, on three different computers. And when I was trying to figure this out on the forums years ago, there were plenty of "works fine for me" posters, so it has always seemed to be a problem that was picking on me in particular. The Universe needed me to change those freqs, I guess.

[CRJ_simpilot]

Question is: why on earth would the FAA allow the same Freq. for both runways? I mean for God sakes. There's plenty of VHF air band. Pick another Freq at least 20 MHz apart. It just doesn't make any sense.

 

 

I have some third party NY airports installed and now that I think of it, flying into 13 was off center. So this third party airport must not have even centered the LOC.

 

Flying into NY has always been a PITA. It's a FPS drop due to all of the buildings and then despite my AI traffic set at 50%, the sheer number of A/C will have tower tell you to do a go around all the time one landing after the next until you say screw it and land anyway.

[mallcott]

Question is: why on earth would the FAA allow the same Freq. for both runways? I mean for God sakes. There's plenty of VHF air band. Pick another Freq at least 20 MHz apart. It just doesn't make any sense.

 

 

I have some third party NY airports installed and now that I think of it, flying into 13 was off center. So this third party airport must not have even centered the LOC.

 

Flying into NY has always been a PITA. It's a FPS drop due to all of the buildings and then despite my AI traffic set at 50%, the sheer number of A/C will have tower tell you to do a go around all the time one landing after the next until you say screw it and land anyway.

 

As Bean told you in the topic, it's simply because the `non-use end` is normally turned off - something which is not simulated in FSX.

 

For flight planning purposes, and it's not perfect but it does work, listen out for the runway in use, then change the flightplan to include the operating end - I go further and say it's probably best to choose an extended centreline approach with an intersection or other nav point or fix as the initial approach point - this may or may not be included in the runway procedure.

 

You should never be approaching a runway from the departure end anyway.

 

As for the rest, are you sure you are flying an ILS approach and not an offset-ILS approach?

[CRJ_simpilot]

As Bean told you in the topic, it's simply because the `non-use end` is normally turned off - something which is not simulated in FSX.

 

Why go through the trouble of turning it off in the first place? Just assign a new Freq. and be done with it!

[CRJ_simpilot]

It just doesn't make sense to assign the same frequency to both ends of the runway when you have more than enough bandwidth in that spectrum to use. It has to be one of a few I've seen use this. It's not all that common I've encountered a runway with the same Freq. for both ends, and thank god for that because flying into that runway is a bitch in the Sim. When ever there is an ILS, I tune to it mostly for situational awareness. Having the same Freq. for both ends is madness.

 

But what do I know. I'm not a politician or policy maker that typically makes asinine decisions.

[dnpaul]

It just doesn't make sense to assign the same frequency to both ends of the runway when you have more than enough bandwidth in that spectrum to use. It has to be one of a few I've seen use this. It's not all that common I've encountered a runway with the same Freq. for both ends, and thank god for that because flying into that runway is a bitch in the Sim. When ever there is an ILS, I tune to it mostly for situational awareness. Having the same Freq. for both ends is madness.

 

But what do I know. I'm not a politician or policy maker that typically makes asinine decisions.

 

Not so sure about there being more than enough bandwidth. With all the airports in the NY metro area, it was a bit of a chore for me to find open frequencies to program for these ILS runways without having a conflict.

[CRJ_simpilot]

You couldn't find something that was a mere 20 KHz apart?