Art Burke Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 My skill set for FSX is mostly in general aviation. My favorite plane is my Flight1 Pilatus PC-12. But, lately, with all the talk (and all the building) and the interesting VC in the 737, I've started learning how to handle the big iron. Got two questions, one a real biggie and the other one not so much. In the checklist for the 737 - BEFORE TAXI CHECKLIST - there's an item that references the Autopilot and it says: "ON, SET, don't activate." How do you "turn on" the autopilot without activating it? And the second question - according to the checklist, the landing speed is 135 kts. Even in level flight I seem to have problems getting the plane to fly that slowly without it eventually going berserk - the trim "runs away" and the plane will easily get out of control. Today, I learned to "fudge" a little and set a small percentage on the spoilers. That appeared to make the difference, but it doesn't seem realistic. From a realistic perspective, how are you supposed to get the final approach speed down to 140 - 150 so you can ultimately land around 135? Art - N4PJ Leesburg, FL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il88pp Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Much of the info in those lists for the default planes makes no sense at all. For example in the 737, Vref at 90.000 lbs weight. -flaps 40--165 kias flaps 30 -- 116 kias. the number for flaps 40 should of course be lower then for flaps 30. Numbers that do fit every time are the max flaps speeds. Go by "max flap speed minus 5-10%". max speed flaps 40 is 160 kt. don't go too much below that. The steadiest landings in the default 737 are at flaps 40, speed 150 just before touchdown you disconnect the auothrottle and autopilot, then reduce thrust a little, and pull up the nose untill it is horizontal or a little bit up. that will slow you down just a little more before touching down. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftldave Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Take a look at Werner Schott's checklists. Not totally accurate, but you can see the sequence of reducing speed and increasing flaps as you go into approach phase. I know I learned a lot by studying his checklists, and modifying them when needed for certain aircraft. You aren't meant to fly a plane level at landing speed. That's how fast you should be going when you're in the final seconds of landing. As for the autopilot, apply the correct settings, turn on the flight director (FD), don't activate the other autopilot switches until after you've taken off and reached the point where you stop flying manually and are ready for the autopilot to take over. FREECHECKLISTS.NET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Burke Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 Thanks for the tips. Yes, the "procedures" for what we see in the sims is often at obvious difference from the real world. One of the checklist items is hydraulic pumps. I've flown the 737 a number of times and have never turned them on. Guess the sim doesn't really need 'em! LOL Art - N4PJ Leesburg, FL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Burke Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 Thanks for the help Dave. Yes, Werner Schott's checklist was where I got that info about the autopilot. And yes, I realize that you don't want to be flying 135 kts for several miles before finally landing. I do realize that the 135 kts reference speed is the speed you're going to have just before touchdown. But even at 150, it seems hard sometimes to keep the nose down at that speed - the trim often tries to run away and let the nose get higher and higher. It's hard enough to see over the glare shield already, LOL! Practice makes perfect (if you know what to practice!) - I'll work on the speed control with a little higher KIAS. I realize too - if I were really flying the 737, there would be a copilot to handle some functions as well. Right in the hectic moments (particularly at takeoff) there's a lot to do for a single pilot. Landing at KMCO was a real pain as well. The default ATC in FSX is a mess. Orlando is apparently right on the threshold of "controllers" in Orlando, Tampa and Jacksonville. During my approach (vectoring) the ATC was constant chatter and it was often difficult just to get in and acknowledge my instructions. Sometimes I just ignore 'em and land when I'm ready! Another cute trick years ago - as you're getting close to your final approach, a quick check of the menu and reduce the AI traffic to zero. Less likely to be told to go around because some AI plane is taking 10 minutes to get off the runway. LOL! I prefer to keep it somewhat realistic, but some of the default stuff makes it hard some times! Thanks again for your advice. Art - N4PJ Leesburg, FL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il88pp Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Fly with ap and at both on, or with ap and at both off. They work together, if you separate them and have one on and one off it gets messed up. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrzippy Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 It's hard enough to see over the glare shield already, LOL! Practice makes perfect (if you know what to practice!) - I'll work on the speed control with a little higher KIAS. Art - N4PJ Leesburg, FL If you are flying in the 2D cockpit, you can adjust your field of view by holding down the Ctrl+Q key for a second or two or install pwrseat1.zip By Glen Copeland A good 737-800 landing practice I'd try flying the KIOSK Chicago Landing Mission a few dozen times. It's a short, 10 minute landing approach to Chicago O'Hare airport. Still thinking about a new flightsim only computer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 If you are flying in the 2D cockpit, you can adjust your field of view by holding down the Ctrl+Q key for a second or two or install pwrseat1.zip By Glen Copeland A good 737-800 landing practice I'd try flying the KIOSK Chicago Landing Mission a few dozen times. It's a short, 10 minute landing approach to Chicago O'Hare airport. [ATTACH=CONFIG]188946[/ATTACH] +1! Repeat, repeat etc.;) As Mr Zippy pointed out, 2D seat height is Raised by the Ctrl+Q key & yes there is a short lag before it starts moving. If you are like me and overshoot or for another reason want to LOWER your seat, use Ctrl+Shift+Q :cool: Being an old chopper guy I usually fly low and slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Burke Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 Yes, I am aware of the "seat height" option. But there's a fly in that ointment. If you make the adjustment in the 2D panel, then look anywhere but straight ahead (or locked spot view), the view shifts back to the default and you're effectively sitting on the floor again! (relatively speaking). The default C172 did the right thing, in my humble opinion. There are at least three different panel options - the default 2D cockpit - out-the-front view, a version that very much fills up the screen (I refer to it as the IFR panel) and a "landing" panel. This last view shoves the switches and other controls at the very bottom of the view out of the way and seriously lowers the glare shield. Some of the default planes do a pretty good job as well with the "W" view. The default 737 does a pretty good job. The first view when you press "W" removes the cockpit, but leaves two instruments - one of which allows you to see VSI, speed, pitch, etc. Some of the other default planes either puts too many instruments in the way, or expects you to get by with nothing at all! The 737 is also kind of strange. It almost appears that two different design groups were involved - one to work on the 2D stuff and one to work on the 3D stuff and they weren't allowed to talk to each other! For example: If you start the engines using the 2D overhead panel, the starter switches don't actually move. But if you start engines with the starters on the VC panel, they do move! There are other switches where pretty much the same thing happens. Additionally, there's been a separate thread (stretching over the years, since it's never been corrected) about the "fuel valve open" problem. If you start the engines using only the 2D panel options, the valves apparently never get closed. (You can, of course, fudge, and use CTRL+E after the engines are started and the warning will go away.) But, if you start the engines using the starters in the VC panel - *and* you remember to actually close the valves, the warning message goes away. My plan for my "cockpit" (basically a keyboard encoder and some rotary encoders) was to start the engines with the 2D panel (it's simply easier to find programming ways to get to everything) and then, behind the scenes, have the encoder programmed to send the CTRL+E after the fact. Makes it still seem somewhat realistic without resorting to something really hokey. As far as actually flying the 737 - it didn't take very long to discover that you can't throw that thing around in the sky like you can a 172 (or even my beloved PC-12), particularly if you're close to the ground! The movie "Airplane" was a spoof of a movie that was based on a real-life event. In that real-life event, the passenger-cum-pilot *did* manage to get the plane safely down - with a ground loop thrown in for good measure! I suspect that many of us could get an airliner back on the ground - as long as the autopilot still works - and maybe we're lucky enough to be approaching an airport with an ILS! The bottom line is that there are a lot of differences between flying a 172 and a 737. I want to practice, but (a) I want to be realistic and (b) I want to be sure I'm practicing the right things the right way. Thanks for all the help I'm receiving. Art - N4PJ Leesburg, FL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrzippy Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 b738panelfix_v11.zip From the AVSIM Library. This will fix the switches overhead in the 2D panel for correct engine start and start valve operation. Still thinking about a new flightsim only computer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il88pp Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 first, you can drag the edges of a 2D panel to make it smaller. so you can see over the top. second: https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?295474-737-Default-Cockpit&p=1956322#post1956322 third: https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?295485-a-fix-for-the-default-b737_800-2D-fuel-valve-swirches [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Burke Posted April 21, 2016 Author Share Posted April 21, 2016 Thanks Mr. Zippy. My workaround works great, but if I get tired of that (build a new cockpit, get a new sim, etc., I'll keep the "fix" in mind. Art - N4PJ Leesburg, FL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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