Landing

[bmatt569]

Let me preface this with the fact that I have been simming for many years and this has been somewhat of a problem for all those years. So, here goes.

 

(Swallowing hard) (gulp) (ehem)

 

I am going to admit something, ah, rather embarrassing ... I'm having a terrible time landing. There, I've said it!

 

It doesn't really matter which plane I'm flying I can't seem to get my touchdown rate down. I'll get lined up on a 5-10 final and be on the glidepath on the AP. as soon as I get to DH and disengage the AP all h#*l breaks loose. I'll veer of to one side, the AC will climb or decend and I'll end up somewhere I don't really want to be. Take a look at my touchdown rates, they suck!

 

I need some suggestions on how to land smoothly. I'm open to any and all.

[ScatterbrainKid]

Sounds like you've been flying too much on AP and forgotten how to fly manually..;)

I've had FSX for 8 years and have never, ever, used AP because where's the fun in that?

I fly manually all the time and throw big jets around bush-pilot style, you haven't lived til you've landed a 747 manually in external view, piece o' cake!

Heck even stewardesses can do it-

 

Airport 1975

Kennedy- "She's flying it herself!"

Heston- "Climb baby, climb!"

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/airport-75B_zpswmrygl75.jpg~original

[napamule2]

That '5-10 final' attitude before you reach the end of the runway actually puts you in an unstable (or stall) attitude. No amount of power or flaps or control surface 'input' will allow you to recover. You crash and burn (preceeded by a tail strike of course).

 

You have to be at a certain attitude, BEFORE DH. You establish vertical speed with flaps, throttle and PITCH TRIM to come in at a certain speed all the way to touchdown. But as you pass the end of runway you THEN (cut throttle?) do a flare and land on main wheels. It's /one-fluid-motion/ and not 'steps'. THE POSITIVE PITCH TRIM HELPS SET 'LANDING PROFILE'. Without pitch trim you have one 'loose bolt' (ie: having to struggle with control (elevator/rudder/aerlions) which you don't WANT. Do I have to say: 'it takes practice' (because it does)? Guess so. Good luck.

Chuck B

Napamule

[lnuss]

Try it with something small (C-172 or so) until you get it right. Go down to the Real Aviation Tutorials & FAQs sections below and check out the posts on Basic Aircraft Control and on Takeoff and Landing. Note that you don't actually land an aircraft, rather you put it near the ground at the proper approach speed, then cut the power and try to keep it from touching -- sooner or later it will, of course -- then after the mains touch keep trying to hold it off 'til the nose comes down.

 

And don't stare at the ground just in front of the aircraft. Instead, by the time you're starting your flare you should be looking at the far end of the runway, the easier to judge your height.

 

But start in a light aircraft and practice, practice, practice until you get it right. But be sure that you have precise control of the aircraft before you spend too much time on landings, so try some of the exercises given in Basic Aircraft Control below.

[HoratioWondersocks]

Let me preface this with the fact that I have been simming for many years and this has been somewhat of a problem for all those years. So, here goes.

 

(Swallowing hard) (gulp) (ehem)

 

I am going to admit something, ah, rather embarrassing ... I'm having a terrible time landing. There, I've said it!

 

It doesn't really matter which plane I'm flying I can't seem to get my touchdown rate down. I'll get lined up on a 5-10 final and be on the glidepath on the AP. as soon as I get to DH and disengage the AP all h#*l breaks loose. I'll veer of to one side, the AC will climb or decend and I'll end up somewhere I don't really want to be. Take a look at my touchdown rates, they suck!

 

I need some suggestions on how to land smoothly. I'm open to any and all.

 

Interesting!

I'm in the same boat as you ,after fifteen years or so as a Sim fan ,I still find landings problematic.

I have taken on board advice given by fellow simmers ,but doggedly persist in trying to get it right by my own experimentation. On the whole iam now pretty good with landings ,but never really feel fully confident iam going to get it right (Hope real worlders don't feel the same :)

Anyways trying to perfect my landings both ILS and visual is still a continuing challenge ,and as a long term simmer I do sometimes think IF! I ever manage crack it ,whether I may lose my interest in the hobby.

Take offs are nearly always good ,although I still nearly always manage to forget some of the basics ie LLights ,taxi lights still on above ten thousand ,or no landing or taxi lights on in the first place ,forget strobes etc etc ,but actual take offs very good.

One exception ,very wary of poskies particularly there 747s I learnt very early on take off to pull back very carefully and ease into the air ,otherwise you get stuck with there rather horrible crash effects as you tail swipe.

ANYWAYS a TIP

I f you should tail swipe your posky and simply cannot get rid of the crash effects (even loading a different aircraft will not do it by the way)one way I have found of getting around this (requires Pete Dowson's autosave ) is to re load the first flight saved by AS and the effects are gone.

Anyway keeping those posky effects has at least made me a better 747 take offer.

 

Anyways 2

Landings are still my main FS challenge.

 

Cheers Andy

[silverheels2]

Sometimes the problem may be caused at least in part by your controls. I've been simming for almost 20 years and I find that every new aircraft I fly with requires some tweaking of my controls and the aircraft .cfg file in order to create a realistic feeling when landing and hand flying in general. To make it worse, everyone's controls and system are at least a bit different. Generally the response to the controls is exaggerated and must be damped to varying degree to customize the system.

[mrzippy]

Besides a lot of practice..........try this! It says for FS2004 but works for FSX also!

 

autoln21.zip In the file Library.

[HoratioWondersocks]

Besides a lot of practice..........try this! It says for FS2004 but works for FSX also!

 

autoln21.zip In the file Library.

 

Hello Zip

I may try that out.

Although I will also continue in my long term quest to get the app and landing by my own fair hand to something more than just acceptable.

I have to say I am not in the "Real men hand fly etc etc although peace be upon them ,that's how they enjoy there simming)

I enjoy simming for its (sometimes :)) relaxing ,almost meditative qualities and iam not at all adverse to using anything that helps me enjoy my flight experience.

I still hand and ILS land most of the time.However I may give that autoland a try as well

 

Cheers Zip

 

Andy

[mrzippy]

Hello Zip

I may try that out.

Although I will also continue in my long term quest to get the app and landing by my own fair hand to something more than just acceptable.

I have to say I am not in the "Real men hand fly etc etc although peace be upon them ,that's how they enjoy there simming)

I enjoy simming for its (sometimes :)) relaxing ,almost meditative qualities and iam not at all adverse to using anything that helps me enjoy my flight experience.

I still hand and ILS land most of the time.However I may give that autoland a try as well

 

Cheers Zip

 

Andy

 

Yep, Me too! I have this gauge in only a couple of aircraft. I have a tendency to fly my aircraft the way it should be flown with my caboose firmly planed in the pilot's seat. When was the last time your pilot flew and landed his aircraft while outside the plane?? I ain't flying with that guy!:eek:

[Rupert]

Landing is always the easiest part of flying! Hell taking off is always optional, landings are always mandatory!

 

Yes some landings are more comfortable than others! But we all can and will land!

 

Now that we understand we all can land. The next step is to shoot for a more comfortable landing. I believe we're all shooting towards that goal on every flight.;)

[Egsjr1956]

It doesn't really matter which plane I'm flying

 

I've had my share of troubles also. I read somewhere when learning, stick to one plane and practice with that. The basics of flying are all the same, its the dynamics that change. I started with the default 172 and then on to the A2A 172. Being I practiced with the default when I went to the A2A I saw the difference in the dynamics right away. I understood the basics of TO and landing so I just had to get a feel for the plane. I am not a RW pilot, but as I improve I can see the differences. I myself am going to look into the tool that been suggested by Zip. I still have a lot of room for improvement. I use Rex Latitude which gives me a way to score myself and see where I need improvement.

[Mithras]

Take off with hour desired plane on manual and fly circuit after circuit, land, touch and go, land, touch and go, land repeat etc. The physical act of turning onto the circuit legs, maintaining the circuit height of 1500 and lining up will all improve your handling skills. And it is handling skills you need to develop. Then land, taxi back. Do this every day! After a dozen circuits, in a big jet, I can fly a circuit as well as a Cessna 172. Its just raw practice.

[Mithras]

This isn't cheating, BTW, I've seen a You Tube video showing a Ryanair 737 running repeated touch and gos at EGNX, and on PlaneFinder I watched the track of an easyJet airbus flying more than a dozen circuits at EGCN after flying up from Gatwick especially for the training flight.

[Rupert]

This isn't cheating, BTW, I've seen a You Tube video showing a Ryanair 737 running repeated touch and gos at EGNX, and on PlaneFinder I watched the track of an easyJet airbus flying more than a dozen circuits at EGCN after flying up from Gatwick especially for the training flight.

 

You're correct! Al least once a week we see Real World UPS 747s or at least 737s shooting touch and goes at KSDF. They do take longer loops in a 747 that in a Cessna. But the concept of practice, practice doesn't really change based on the size or complexity of the plane.

[ScatterbrainKid]

And of course the Aircraft Realism sliders play a part in handling, I leave mine around halfway like this-

 

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub2/FSX-Airc-Realism_zpsbdxr8kic.jpg~original

[asos]

Practice, practice, practice...

 

In INSTANT REPLAY see your mistakes and learn.

 

Nick

[ScatterbrainKid]

Another tip- Get out of the cockpit more!

In external view you get a much better sense of overall situational awareness and can see how the plane "sits" in the air. In fact I fly in external view most of the time, here's my freeware Storch coming in for a landing on a soccer pitch in NY's default Central Park-

 

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub2/FSX-storchB_zps96e572a4.jpg~original

[falcon409]

Lots of interesting ideas on how to land an airplane I must say. From your original post, I would say the first thing is to lose the AP when you're about 10nm from your destination. Don't put yourself in a bad situation when you lack altitude. Also, make calibrating your joystick and/or throttle a regular regimen. Nothing will screw with your control during the critical phases of the flight (TO and Landings) like an out-of-wack joystick.

 

I use AP all the time, apparently there are some who don't and that's fine, but it was built to alleviate stress in the cockpit and so why not? The problem arises when you rely on it too much. . .such as landings. . .as someone already mentioned, you begin to rely on the automation and forget how to actually fly an airplane. So off with the AP on landings til you can grease em. . .then take a break and fly some ILS approaches.

 

Another thing that was touched on was the realism settings. If you're having that much trouble landing any airplane. . .dial em' all back to "Easy". Try flying and landing like that for awhile. . .the dynamics are less effective at that setting and you may find it a bit less stressful. As you improve, dial in more and leave it for a bit and so on. Turn "Crash Detection" OFF. Nothing more irritating when you're practicing than to have to wait while the sim resets after a crash or when you bump into an invisible crash box from a scenery object that you're not even close to. . .you'll recognize when you've crashed, you sure don't need the sim to rub it in too. Also, know the limits of the airplane you're flying, such as stall speed, approach speed, climb rate, etc.

 

The single best advice that almost everyone here has given you though is this. . .practice, practice, practice.

[ScatterbrainKid]

..as soon as I get to DH and disengage the AP all h#*l breaks loose. I'll veer of to one side, the AC will climb or decend and I'll end up somewhere I don't really want to be..

 

Just a thought, but most joysticks (and yokes?) have got a 'null zone' setting which I've never fully understood, I gather it adds a little bit of mushiness to the stick to stop it being too sensitive. Maybe your null zone is too small or non existent, making the stick violently grab the plane when you disengage your AP, so you could try widening the null zone a bit.

[PhantomTweak]

There's two basic settings for the Controls. Sensitivity, and Nullzone. Sensitivity is pretty self-explanatory. How MUCH each unit of stick (yoke) movement causes the Sim to deflect the control surface.

Null-Zone is a "blank" spot, at the center of the stick movement. IE: You can move the stick without the Sim getting control input for a certain distance. Generally, the new tunnel diode controllers should have a very close to zero null zone setting, because of the way tunnel diodes work. All it takes it the slightest motion offf-center to start a tunnel diode to start providing input to the Sim. Thus, with a very tiny nullzone in the Controls settings, it feels like even a pressure on the stick will deflect the control surfaces a small amount.

As opposed to poteniometers (variable resistors), that are how the old ones worked. They needed a nullzone, because every individual pot (potentiometer) has a small "blank" area in the center of it's travel range. It's just the way pots are manufactured.

It also permits "slop" stick movements, like if you habitually pull to one side, for example, you can get rid of that by making the null zone a little bigger.

SO: Tunnel diode controller, VERY small null zone, except rudder, as most people can't move their stick any distance without a slight bit of twist, max sensitivity is the best way to get the most out of you stick. Or yoke, whatever you use. A potentiometer controller, you need null zones to account for he pots blank area and you need to adjust the sensitivity, as each pot is slightly different. It's just mass-production. Nothing can be done. That way, every pot will deflect the controls the same amount for the given amount of movement of the stick.

 

Does that help explain it a little bit?

Pat☺

[dspaulding]

Hey pat, while you're discussing this, I was wondering does sensitivity reduce the amount of deflection required in the sim? Or does it just reduce the available amount of deflection? Why I ask is I love the Concorde, but hate hand flying the beast because the sim is too sensitive to get the angle of attack correct. In other words, it's a yo-yo machine without autopilot.

[UPHILL3]

I watched a how-to video on landing the Majestic Dash 400 - sure looked relatively easy on the video - but when I try to land the Dash it's all over the place, and applying more throttle just makes it bounce on touch-down.

 

I can bring down most other aircraft of any size and perform a pretty decent landing most of the time - but, so far, not the Dash...

[Rupert]

I watched a how-to video on landing the Majestic Dash 400 - sure looked relatively easy on the video - but when I try to land the Dash it's all over the place, and applying more throttle just makes it bounce on touch-down.

 

I can bring down most other aircraft of any size and perform a pretty decent landing most of the time - but, so far, not the Dash...

 

Think lift to weight ratio. Any aircraft with huge wings, such as every Dash I'm aware of, is designed to lift a lot of weight, typically at a low airspeed. (An STOL is a perfect example of this. In fact you could call a Dash a STOL plane itself.) The more wing area you have compared to the gross weight you are lifting, the more "flighty" the plane becomes.

 

"Ground Cushion" also comes into play with that large lift to weight ratio. There is an altitude over ground where the wing starts getting lift from the air currents bouncing back off the earth. When you advance the throttle, you're increasing the ground turbulence and therefore the plane "skies." Those induced winds and and the fact that such large wings are much more affected by ambient winds and cross winds added together equal your "bounce."

[PhantomTweak]

Hey pat, while you're discussing this, I was wondering does sensitivity reduce the amount of deflection required in the sim? Or does it just reduce the available amount of deflection?

The sensitivity setting reduces the amount of motion of the control surface for a given amount of stick deflection. That's the short answer. Now for my usual, excessively verbose, answer :D

 

Let us say, for example, that with sensitivity all the way to the right (maximum), 1/4" of stick deflection causes the elevator to deflect 50% of it's throw. I am just using easy to use numbers, by the way, they represent nothing really in the sim. Just examples that easy for me to work with :D

SO if you take and turn the sensitivity down to 50% (slider midpoint), then 1/4" of stick movement will now move the elevator 25% of it's total available deflection.

So, basically, moving the slider to the left reduces the amount the control is moved by the stick. Yoke, keyboard (different sliders, same result), whatever you choose to use. Although full stick deflection should still equal full control movement.

Essentially, the sliders set the parameters of a curve. Further left, flatter the curve, meaning less control deflection per unit movement of the stick, even though the TOTAL winds up the same. IE: 100% stick movement always equals 100% control surface deflection. You just have to move the stick farther from center to get the 50% elevator deflection now.

It gets a little bit complicated at this point, so I am gonna shut up here...

 

That's the best I can do this time of day :)

Does that help a little bit?

Pat☺

[il88pp]

Cm edit to the fsx.cfg file may help.

 

Close fsx,

open the fsx.cfg file in notepad,

find the [Controls] section,

below:

[Controls]

add:

stick_sensitivity_mode=0

 

then close and save the fsx.cfg file,

start fsx.

 

This makes the stick response much less jumpy.