custom force feedback flight load files - alpha/beta testers wanted.

[Pace]

Joe,

What we really need in an ideal world would be graphs made up for a typical single, light twin, medium turboprop and light jet........and the rest ????

These could be used as a basis for other models in these categories and adjusted to suit

Ideally we should roughly measure the forces and time the pitch changes as well as measuring control movement.

Measurement and data need to be collected for yaw pitch and roll, until a feel picture is created.

Im sure aircraft manufacturers will have fitted electronic sensory devices to aircraft to collect this sort of data and would have those graphs somewhere?

Peter

[LTEtabs]

Will this make the Sidewinder FF2 finally usable in the game??!! I bought one and took it back because I couldn't stand the low tension and low return to center springback... the stick felt great in Windows, but as soon as I started FS, it goes limp!

If you can do this man, I just may go buy the stick again...

[Captain_Slarty]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jan-01-02 AT 12:13PM (EDT)[/font][p]Agreed peter,

I look at it a bit like an electronic ignition 3d graph, or fuel injection graph (if you have seen one ?)..

the biggest problem EVER with ff is this.. if you have a stick - go and try it...

say, the cessna... get some speed up - roll left or right, now relax the hand.. the stick will try to push the hand full opposite THIS IS SO WRONG ! AND

one of the biggest issues.

what NEEDS to happen is that, on release of the tension on the stick, the thing applies opposite force, but CONTROLLED - ie, if you try and push full opposite aileron.. you cant easily !.. there is resistance to the opposite roll whilst the first roll is unwinding.

As things develop from the testing and if things work out as I hope, I will make a custom editor for all aspects, also make it fairly open ended so that math can be added as we need.

Joe

http://www.captainslarty.com/images/sl0015fps.gif

[Captain_Slarty]

Didnt realise it was THE Derek Higgs of Simpits fame. !

glad to meet up.

and thanks for your invaluable contributions to all things home cockpit based.

YOU DA MAN !!

Joe :-wave



http://www.captainslarty.com/images/sl0015fps.gif

[Simpit]

Heehee... no problem. :-wave

I lurk a lot and try and connect threads where I see people weaving cockpit stuff together. I'm glad to see you working on this program... it's just one more thing in the tapestry.

Derek

[JohnPenn]

I,m using a MS ff2 and avoid using FF in 2k2 like the plague.

Just not enough resistance using force feedback, limp is an understatement:), trying to control the jets is almost impossible .


Joe your app sounds like a godsend nice one:).

Cheers

John

[JohnPenn]

My only flight experience is on the PC,but if I can help in any way i would be more than happy.

JOhn

[seba55]

Next time I fly I'll try to get more accurate data re control forces. Meanwhile (from memory):

climbing / turns
high bank turns
level flight and speed effects
approach phase
base
finals
flair (very nice Mr. Slarty)

There is this relation between control forces and airspeed. The faster you go, the stiffer the controls (without hydraulics that is). I'm not aware of any significant control force difference between climbing/turning/descending at a given speed. What matters is airspeed. In a practical sense: At 120kt your control forces will be the same, no matter if you are climbing, turning or whatever.

At 60kt the Robin 2160D, which has a stick, has pretty light control forces. Maybe about 1-2kg for the elevator, a lot less for the ailerons. That way you can easily use greater deflections of the control surfaces. You need those greater deflections because the elevator/ailerons are not very effective at such a low speed. That speed regime would cover take off and flare.

While cruising (or approaching) the speed will be around 110-120kt. At that speed, the stick is centered very firmly. You control the robin more or less with just pressure on the stick, without actually moving it a lot. Really moving the stick at those higher speeds requires a rather hefty push/pull/(and whatever the sideways action is called). Control forces at that speed feel more like 5kg or even more. Again, aileron control is a little lighter. But not much.

Between 60kt and 120kt the control forces are increasing smoothly (might linear be the right word?).

The Cessnas and Pipers I have flown were a little different. The aileron forces stayed comparably light all the way through the speed envelope. While - of course - the aileron control stiffens with increasing speed, I believe that those forces stay at around 2 kg max. That way you can comfortably work with those high aileron deflections that most cessnas and pipers need due to the small size of their ailerons. Elevator control forces are more like the Robin 2160D. Light at slow speeds, quite stiff at high speeds.

flaps
The robin (like most other ga aircraft) will pitch down a little when flaps are deployed. How much backpressure is needed to keep the nose up (until you have trimmed) depends on your airspeed. The robin will typically need backpressure in the 0.5-1kg range.
Just enough to not make you forget about trimming.

I hope this helps a little.

Regards,
Seba

[Pace]

>There is this relation between control forces and airspeed. The faster you go, the stiffer the controls (without hydraulics that is). I'm not aware of any significant control force difference between climbing/turning/descending at a given speed. What matters is airspeed. In a practical sense: At 120kt your control forces will be the same, no matter if you are climbing, turning or whatever<

Seba,

Can I just add a little to your statement above.
Any change from an aircrafts trimmed state will cause a difference in control pressure.

Ie trimmed at 120 kts level speed a pitch to say 10 degrees will cause a change in control pressure.
You are forcing the aircraft from its trimmed trajectory and as such will experience a control pressure change regardless of maintaining the same airspeed until you retrim the aircraft to its new configuration.

All the best

Peter (sorry to dive in)

[seba55]

I'm glad you did.

Completely forgot about trimming. I guess I meant something to the effect of: If you want to change either pitch or bankangle while correctly trimmed, then airspeed governs the control forces you have to overcome...

Thanks
Seba