custom force feedback flight load files - alpha/beta testers wanted.

[Captain_Slarty]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Jan-01-02 AT 08:36AM (EDT)[/font][p]I would like a few people to act as beta testers for a small app I am witing for fs2002.

the function of the app is to provide custom force feedback files for individual aircraft in fs2002.

The idea is to fully disable the force feedback generated by the sim and add custom routines from an external application.

What I intend to do is provide forces and off centre forces dependent on aircraft realtime parameters, the
feel can be taylored to the specific airfile.

things like...

light controls with forward bias on ground not moving... elevator feel as airspeed increases.....
load increasing with speed, feel changes with flaps / gear etc.

I will hopefully produce a gui editor for the parameters at a later stage if things work out.

What I need from the testers are the following.

Real world time in a small ga aircraft (just to start with - will be expanded to heavies later - this is purely because more people here have more time in light aircraft han heavies)

A force feedback joystick conforming to directinput - most are - I can send you a test routine to see -

Directx 8.1 - must be installed.

VB6 Runtime - I can provide a link

edit *** ooops and of course, FSUIUPC - the latest ****

Also, I would like to ask for the following from real time light a/c pilots as a guide and discussion point.

(My own 172 / 152 experience is limited to about 100 hours but I have another coupla hundred in ultralights)

please provide a talk through of the forces felt on a typical circuit.. the guys who fly regular - i dont unfortunately - will be far better placed to consider this on their next flight..

start up
taxi
power runs
take off
climbing / turns
high bank turns
level flight and speed effects
approach phase
flaps
base
finals
flair

Many thanks

Joe. (Captn S.)

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[TheFlyingFinn]

Ive never been in a real cockpit (sad but true), but I sure would like to test that one!

[Captain_Slarty]

Hi, providing I can get some real world input too, I have no problem with some others assisting.

your help would be appreciated. thanks

Joe

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[Pace]

Joe,

Now that sounds really exciting! the idea of custom files for specific aircraft controlling forces.

You need to select an aircraft with a guy who wont kill himself in the process and then take a number of readings throughout the normal envelope.

Any particular forcefeeback control recommended?

Peter

[Captain_Slarty]

Thats interesting, I was thinking of JUST SUCH A GUY !!! - ie YOU !!!

;-)

send me which ever aircraft you are happy with (inc airfile) - presumably a seneca for you ... :-lol

regarding the ff sticks, I have the ms ff2 .. havent looked recently, hopefully some guys can add their reccomendations.

perhap Rob can tweak a file for us for 'numbers' as opposed to feel for the purposes of the tests ?

Joe

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[Captain_Slarty]

http://www.captainslarty.com/images/...ceFeedback.exe

if this works with your JS, then its compatable with my program.

Joe

ps, its only a small file... but you will need vb6 runtime files.

http://support.microsoft.com/default...VBRun60sp4.exe

(right click on the link and select save target as.)

just in case you aint got them

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[seba55]

Here's what the Robin 2160D feels like. That ac has a fully moving (flying) horizontal stabilizer, which probably leads to somewhat exagerated control forces in comparison to the typical 172 with it's tiny elevator surface. Anyhow:

before start up:
elevator is in it's full down position. to pull the stick back you need to pull around 1 kg throughout the motion. not a hefty pull but you feel the weight of that flying stabilizer. Cessna and Piper Arrow have the yoke in a neutral position (or whereever you left it) and movement requires very little force.

start up
stick firmly in the full down position. You feel light vibrations (engine) in the stick. Not enough to make the stick visibly move. Never held the stick during engine start so I dont know if you feel the starter coming to life via the airframe vibrations.

taxi
holding the stick back while taxiing requires a continuous pull of around 1-2 kg. A little engine vibration in the stick. Not much though, because the Lycoming runs pretty smooth at around 1000 rpm.

power runs
with the stick back you feel a lot of vibration. Mainly the propwash which is not a constant flow a air over the elevator but rather gusty. If you let go of the stick it will visibly move.

take off
you feel the stick centering itself in the position it is trimmed for. control forces increase smoothly until take off. at take off (around 60kt) the forces are still pretty light. the slipstream has taken over the weight of the flying tail. You can move the stick with about 1kg of pressure. Aileron forces are much lighter. About half a kg max.

I got to run now. Please reply if you find the above amateurish blabble helpful at all. If you do I'll try to finish this tonight.

Regards
Seba

[Captain_Slarty]

that is EXACTLY the sort of thing I am looking for Sir.. thanks.

obviously with the current generation sticks we can only simulate loads to a set force level, but a proportional feel can certainly be obtained.. the idea is to try and get the aircraft to 'talk back'

I would be grateful for as many of these desriptions as possible.

again

Thanks

Joe

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[Simpit]

A question and a comment.

Most of the forces that are going to be described to you are over the full range of the real size yoke or stick. Do you have an idea of how you are going to scale it to fit the range of the joystick?

The other thing that might help is getting your hands on some Approval Test Guides (ATG) for the aircraft you make files for. Unfortunatly, these are VERY proprietary and hard to come by. For more information : http://www.faa.gov/nsp/faq.htm.

Good luck! I'm glad to see this going. Evidently you didn't sample too much over the new year!

Derek

[Captain_Slarty]

Hi Derek.. I had a 'reasonably' quiet new year :-lol.

you are absolutely correct re the range of forces. we have a limited control function and throw with present devices.

what I intend to do is make the feel as aircraft specific as is possible withing the confines of the input device's abilities, but... load the item to its n'th degree if a pilot trys something that would be extrmemly difficult or impossible in real life - ie, trying to pitch up to 90 degrees from straight and level - apply enough force to say 'WOH !!!!'

However, this project started due to my desire to have REAL control forces and feel on my planned 737-200 cockpit, for that I will use a copy of the Boeing feel mechanism. The feel computer - this program, will still be able to provide the ouput I require, also, any future ff yokes will be capable of being driven easily.

For uses of conventional FF joysticks I want to a acheive a level of feedback and resistance that is enough to say to the user " this is THIS aircraft " and let the aircraft talk BACK to the user in a way that is not possible at the moment or if it is, it is too generic and a bit 'arcady'.

Any input as to what you would like to 'feel' is welcome.

Joe - Captn S.

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