Airways and the Confluence of Airways

[LoneWolf]

A little confused here about using airways and the confluence of airways...

I'm guessing my question would be best illustrated with an example:

In the Chicago area....

If you wanted to fly from the Joliet VOR (JOT - Just at the SW edge of the Chicago Class B Airspace) on airway V8 eastbound to the Chicago Heights VOR (CGT - Juat at the SE edge of the Chicago Class B Airspace) and then turn North onto airway V7-92 V97-422 and take that all the way North along Lake Michigan, past where it becomes just V7...how would you file for that?

I understand that when there is a confluence of airways...they are written serially (i.e. V7-92), but why are they written on separate 'lines' sometimes...such as:

V7-92
V97-422

Does that mean that the above segment is the 'confluence' of airways V7 and V92....and V97 and V422?

If you were to be flying along that segment....would you file that you are using airway V7-92 V97-422....or....do you simply use one of the 'airway' names that are part of the confluence...i.e....just V7?

Are you even allowed to do that....meaning....turn from V8 west to the CGT VOR to airway V7-92 V97-422? Or do you have to already be on an airway that is listed as part of the confluence in order to turn onto the segment with the confluence (i.e....you have to be on airway V7, 92, 97, or 422 in order to use the segment with the confluence of V7-92 V97-422)? So in other words, because I was on airway V8...would I not be able to turn North onto V7-92 V97-422 because V8 isn't listed as part of the confluence?

Next question...a little simpler:

West of the Chicago Class B Airspace is airway V6 which leads up to the Dupage VOR (DPA - On the western edge of the Chicago Class B Airspace) and seems to 'end' there.

However, airway V6-10 seems to continue east away from the Chicago Class B airspace from the Southeast portion of the Class B airspace.

There is a 40 some-odd NM gap between where airway V6 ends west of the airspace and continues again SE of the airspace?

How does that work? Does ATC vector you from where the airway ends in one place, and begins again in another? How do you get from where the airway ends, across the gap, to where it begins again?

Thanks!

[LoneWolf]

A little confused here about using airways and the confluence of airways...

I'm guessing my question would be best illustrated with an example:

In the Chicago area....

If you wanted to fly from the Joliet VOR (JOT - Just at the SW edge of the Chicago Class B Airspace) on airway V8 eastbound to the Chicago Heights VOR (CGT - Juat at the SE edge of the Chicago Class B Airspace) and then turn North onto airway V7-92 V97-422 and take that all the way North along Lake Michigan, past where it becomes just V7...how would you file for that?

I understand that when there is a confluence of airways...they are written serially (i.e. V7-92), but why are they written on separate 'lines' sometimes...such as:

V7-92
V97-422

Does that mean that the above segment is the 'confluence' of airways V7 and V92....and V97 and V422?

If you were to be flying along that segment....would you file that you are using airway V7-92 V97-422....or....do you simply use one of the 'airway' names that are part of the confluence...i.e....just V7?

Are you even allowed to do that....meaning....turn from V8 west to the CGT VOR to airway V7-92 V97-422? Or do you have to already be on an airway that is listed as part of the confluence in order to turn onto the segment with the confluence (i.e....you have to be on airway V7, 92, 97, or 422 in order to use the segment with the confluence of V7-92 V97-422)? So in other words, because I was on airway V8...would I not be able to turn North onto V7-92 V97-422 because V8 isn't listed as part of the confluence?

Next question...a little simpler:

West of the Chicago Class B Airspace is airway V6 which leads up to the Dupage VOR (DPA - On the western edge of the Chicago Class B Airspace) and seems to 'end' there.

However, airway V6-10 seems to continue east away from the Chicago Class B airspace from the Southeast portion of the Class B airspace.

There is a 40 some-odd NM gap between where airway V6 ends west of the airspace and continues again SE of the airspace?

How does that work? Does ATC vector you from where the airway ends in one place, and begins again in another? How do you get from where the airway ends, across the gap, to where it begins again?

Thanks!

[lnuss]

To take your first example, if U were flying from JOT to Sheboygan, SBM, I'd file JOT, V8, V7, SBM. Just as with highways on the ground, all the "confluence" does is show that both V-7 AND V-92 take that path, but you specify the specific airway you want to use, not all that seem to be in the area.

[HR]
http://home.comcast.net/~lfn3/Cub_Pix/LarryCub03_s.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~lfn3/Peg_Ab...590Mklfn_s.jpg
Larry N.

[lnuss]

To take your first example, if U were flying from JOT to Sheboygan, SBM, I'd file JOT, V8, V7, SBM. Just as with highways on the ground, all the "confluence" does is show that both V-7 AND V-92 take that path, but you specify the specific airway you want to use, not all that seem to be in the area.

[HR]
http://home.comcast.net/~lfn3/Cub_Pix/LarryCub03_s.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~lfn3/Peg_Ab...590Mklfn_s.jpg
Larry N.

[LoneWolf]

Gotcha.

Thanks for the example Larry. It makes more sense now :)

That leads me to another question though that actually overlaps a bit with another post I made that you answered. Its easier to ask it here though as you've already illustrated that example above.

If I were planning to make that same flight you illustrated above and if I were preparing a route log during planning...

I notice that along the V7 airway, starting at JOT...there are a ton of fixes/intersections...some being only a few miles apart:

COFEY, NILES, BEBEE, LAIRD, THORR, DEERE, etc.

Would you suggest I list each one of these as an entry in my route log as a 'checkpoint' and figure ETE/ETA's for all of them? Or how would you suggest choosing my 'checkpoint' entries?

Between some of those fixes is only a couple miles...seems like it would be way over-complicated to list all of them. But maybe, by the same token, thats what I should be doing.

What would you recommend?

[LoneWolf]

Gotcha.

Thanks for the example Larry. It makes more sense now :)

That leads me to another question though that actually overlaps a bit with another post I made that you answered. Its easier to ask it here though as you've already illustrated that example above.

If I were planning to make that same flight you illustrated above and if I were preparing a route log during planning...

I notice that along the V7 airway, starting at JOT...there are a ton of fixes/intersections...some being only a few miles apart:

COFEY, NILES, BEBEE, LAIRD, THORR, DEERE, etc.

Would you suggest I list each one of these as an entry in my route log as a 'checkpoint' and figure ETE/ETA's for all of them? Or how would you suggest choosing my 'checkpoint' entries?

Between some of those fixes is only a couple miles...seems like it would be way over-complicated to list all of them. But maybe, by the same token, thats what I should be doing.

What would you recommend?

[lnuss]

I'd only get perhaps a couple of those IFR fixes per leg, and maybe none if you have DME (both in the aircraft and in the navaids you're using). But I'd also want to have several VFR checkpoints along the route (in real life), essentially the same as you'd do if flying VFR. This is a backup, in case you can see enough to use them, if you lose radios/NAV/etc. Even when in Instrument Met Conditions (IMC), you sometimes can see enough of the ground to spot at least SOME of the VFR checkpoints -- granted this isn't always the case, but IMC isn't always totally blind.

This is the belt and suspenders approach, though, and you need to determine if you really want to go this far. But in the real world, it could conceivably be a lifesaver sometime in your flying career. In FS, of course, it doesn't matter except for your goals. Keep in mind that VFR checkpoints are going to be a bit tougher to spot in FS than in the real world, in most cases. So many things that you can check on the sectional in real life simply don't exist in FS.

[HR]
http://home.comcast.net/~lfn3/Cub_Pix/LarryCub03_s.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~lfn3/Peg_Ab...590Mklfn_s.jpg
Larry N.

[lnuss]

I'd only get perhaps a couple of those IFR fixes per leg, and maybe none if you have DME (both in the aircraft and in the navaids you're using). But I'd also want to have several VFR checkpoints along the route (in real life), essentially the same as you'd do if flying VFR. This is a backup, in case you can see enough to use them, if you lose radios/NAV/etc. Even when in Instrument Met Conditions (IMC), you sometimes can see enough of the ground to spot at least SOME of the VFR checkpoints -- granted this isn't always the case, but IMC isn't always totally blind.

This is the belt and suspenders approach, though, and you need to determine if you really want to go this far. But in the real world, it could conceivably be a lifesaver sometime in your flying career. In FS, of course, it doesn't matter except for your goals. Keep in mind that VFR checkpoints are going to be a bit tougher to spot in FS than in the real world, in most cases. So many things that you can check on the sectional in real life simply don't exist in FS.

[HR]
http://home.comcast.net/~lfn3/Cub_Pix/LarryCub03_s.jpg http://home.comcast.net/~lfn3/Peg_Ab...590Mklfn_s.jpg
Larry N.

[LoneWolf]

Thanks Larry.

That was just the sort of example and information I was looking for. Examples go a long way when trying to learn something ;)

--
Wolf

Alienware Area-51, P4 3.2Ghz
2 GB RAM
ATI 9800XT 256MB
Windows XP Professional

[LoneWolf]

Thanks Larry.

That was just the sort of example and information I was looking for. Examples go a long way when trying to learn something ;)

--
Wolf

Alienware Area-51, P4 3.2Ghz
2 GB RAM
ATI 9800XT 256MB
Windows XP Professional