A little more respect please.

[EMAPhil]

Please allow me a little rant.
One of the joys of this forum has always been the really strong sense of mutual respect and willingness to help. No matter how basic the question, or how often it has been asked before, some kind soul will do his best to provide an answer.

Recently I feel that threads have decayed almost instantly into slanging matches, usually not progressing the answer at all but descending into pointless personal punch-ups. And I really don't understand why.

Now some forums have a flame culture and thats fine, I go there for entertainment now and again, but here I look for information and intelligent discussion. I hope most other members feel the same.

I don't want people banned, I think that is too dictatorial but perhaps if we all try to be more understanding we can get along better.
Remember:
Not everyone has english as their prime language.
Misunderstanding is not stupidity.
What you think you said is not always what the other guy heard.
Written words always read harsher than you think.
If you can't add to the original question don't post, don't respond to rudity or flaming, they'll go away soon.

Thanks for reading: I have my intumescent underwear on and no I'm not a preacher despite the evidence above.

[FearlessTower]

It's funny you mention this Phil....I wonder if it is something in the air? I participate in several online forums that range from hobby type stuff such as flightsimming to real world professional forums and all seem to have been experiencing a hightened level of flaming lately. I think that there must be something about internet forums that brings the worst out in some people....or maybe somehow the high price of gas is causing people to take their frustrations out through their keyboards....I dunno.

With that said, I actually think that Flightsim.com has been affected the least by this phenomenon. At least around here, most people use gloves, but over at places like AVSIM it's gotten down right ugly. It has truly gotten ridiculous and why I stopped even reading the threads there let alone post anything.

I hope that Flightsim doesn't get into that sad state as well. Hopefully, it is just a phase.

[drobson]

It seems that these things go in streaks. Why? I don't know. Maybe it's the weather/season of the year. Maybe it's because most of the questions/problems with the current sims have all been asked/answered. I guess some people feel they need to respond in a rude manner, not taking into consideration all of the things you have stated.

We certainly try our best to stay on top of these situations, but, with it being summer-time, and trying to enjoy those summer activities, we are not always here as much as we should be. (Not making excuses here, just simply telling it like it is).

Now, what can be done to eliminate the flames, etc.? We call on the members to help out. By that, I mean that if the members see something that is not right in his/her opinion, please notify us. There are at least a couple of ways of doing this.

1. Use the Private Message feature.
2. Use the e-mail function. (We probably check our e-mail more often than the forums).
3. Use the "Alert" function of the forums. (This method sends an e-mail message to every moderator that is listed at each particular forum).

Also, as you may imagine, we do not always have the time to read each and every thread/post that is made here. Therefore, we may miss some in-appropriate comment contained within any give thread.

We do want to have the forums remain a civil, friendly place to visit, and with the help of the members/users themselves, it can still happen.

Thanks for your comments.

Darrell

[angels355]

I have been having a great time in these forums. I'm totally brand new to forums in general, and for about 99% of the time I've had a really good time, and I've found at flightsim.com that nearly everyone is very intelligent, high minded, and very friendly. I've had some experience with Marine type people in Marine settings who can be incredibly volcanic, but I learned right away to be patient and courteous and LISTEN, and often times they give me some really excellent guidance and assistance that I needed back when I was trying out for the Marines. There are a few people here who sound very loud and volcanic, however they are really very nice people down deep, and many of them I enjoy hearing from the most. Perhaps it takes a little patience to hear what they are really trying to say; these people can be very direct and blunt, but I don't take offense in the slightest because I know what good people they are and how much talent they have. In some cases that is just the way their personality is, and I don't get offended in the slightest from the getgo.

There was one, two, or three incidents with one person who completely lost his cool and was blatantly offensive and purposely hostile to the people on those threads. I thought it was very sad. I'm sure that individual LIVES for this forum, but sometimes can not keep his temper in check. I have also noted that several members have completely gotten fed up with such behavior.

I really love flightsim.com they have the most excellent downloads. I've only slowed down in doing downloads because I think I only have about 2.5 gb's of HD space left right now. I can free up about 1.5 gb's more of free space by archiving my latest downloads onto CD-R's (never let them get too hot, it will melt the thermal plastic that the data is stored on), and be back in business for more downloads. But the ultimate fix is to get a larger HD.

I think if we all try to exercise more patience that flightsim forums will become even better.

I only posted one item over at avsim and got excellent answers to a very obscure question. Haven't seen any downside there as yet. 99% of the time I haven't really seen much of a downside here at flightsim either.

I was on a popular science forum for a few days, and found their behavior consistently very immature, uneducated, rude and insulting. The moderator would have to routinely erase large numbers of responses. Incredibly flightsim's forums are miles and miles above that popular science forum. Which was a great discovery. I haven't been back to the popular science forum, just read science and physics news letters instead.

[alastairmonk]

Sooner or later the Forums inevitably reflect the world at large. Some people have thick skins and enough life experience to filter out the inadvertant mistakes and misunderstandings that occur when people of different cultures meet up - for example at the Forums here at Flightsim.com and elsewhere that are truly International.

And some people don't.

Its not just an age thing. Its stating the obvious that the young haven't had the same experience as those that are older, and there really isn't any substitute for experience, although just as equally age can make people set in their ways and make them less tolerant than those who are younger ! Some "youngsters" demonstrate maturity beyond their years and some "oldies" exhibit behaviour that they should have grown out of years ago.

It comes down to how you treat other people, and the Forums are, or should be, no different to "real life". I can guarantee that if you treat other people with a degree of tolerence and respect you'll get further than if you don't. Play your music excessively loud, or behave anti-socially when driving on the roads, and sooner or later it WILL come back and bite you.

Its easy to hide behind a silly nickname on the Forums and post/type replies that are so offensive that, if spoken face to face would almost certainly give you a close-up view of the other person's fist, but this will only get you a brief period before you get a bad reputation or banned.

So I say that before you leap for the keyboard to respond to a dumb, idiotic posting about something that has been covered countless times before you just stop and think whether they're just being lazy, or simply new and just getting to grips with MSFS. We all had to start somewhere, and I can guarantee that most of us were grateful for the more experienced members showing us the way. If its the poster's first posting, cut them more slack than if its their 2,000th.

Lack of experience is not a crime but a failure to learn from ones mistakes certainly is.

Alastair

[awmc007]

Although non related to the subject, I was wondering what your meaning was in the following:
"I've had some experience with Marine type people in Marine settings who can be incredibly volcanic, but I learned right away to be patient and courteous and LISTEN,"

Bill McKinnon

[angels355]

Bill,

Soytenly, be happy to. As a scientist all of my life, my personality has been very calm and logically minded, I think I may have perhaps met some scientists in the past that have a temper, but as for myself, I am the very calm logical type. Also I'm extremely courteous in general. These are just my natural traits. In command type situations in ER lor enforcement work, I am very assertive and demanding as is appropriate in such situations.

Any way, some years ago I was trying to get in to interview with the Captain for Marine OCS, as a civilian trying to get in to be an Officer and generally Gnarley Dude. They were downsizing at that time, and as I was over 28 they didn't really want to talk to me much, but I had an excellent background, education and real command experience, and had been an outstanding athlete all of my life, but that still was not enough to allow me to interview. So I happened one day to run into a Marine who worked in special areas, who was just about the toughest guy I had ever come across. I was excited to meet him and told him about my interest in becoming a Marine Officer, and the uniform, and the HOORAH, and the shine...(ha ha!:+ ) And I told him I was the volunteering type, I'd volunteer for any action. So that really set him off, he started yelling, "Don't you ever volunteer for anything! Otherwise I'll be scraping you off the deck on the first day!" And similar stuff, then slapped me on the side of the head nearly knocking my hat off. Most people would not like that kind of treatment in the slightest, but I was determined to do my best to get in, and "give 'em what for!" So respectfully listened carefully and courteously to what he was saying, and he told me something that was very important. So the next day I spoke to the Captain and told him what the Marine had said about my eligibility, and told him about my daring do background, and having spoken to that Marine put me over the top. And the Captain authorized me to interview for OCS. So I did my best, interviewed every six months for about four or five years, but at that time they were drastically downsizing, and more advanced education was not an interest to them; if I had gone to medical school there would have been more interest, but then, wouldn't you know it they would have sent me over to the Navy. No offense but, my Dad and Uncle were Navy, and I wanted to go a bit more over the top, and be a Marine.

Had to take a break for a minute to land an A340-200 at SLLP.

Any way, that is my example of being respectful of a talented person's accomplishments, and listening carefully and courteously, as that person's expertise might make a difference in my life. That's probably an unusual story, but it was all a big deal to me. Can you see what I'm trying to get at?

Just call me "Blud 'n Guts!" Ha ha!

[firefighter]

I agree with you 100% Phil. All public forums have had this tendency for years, but it gets worse and worse. People like to pursue private vendettas in the public forum, or feel free to disrespect anyone they want any time they want. I would like to see them talk to those people like that when they are standing right in front of them, but somehow I think their attitude might wane a bit.

[awmc007]

Thanks for your reply, "Blud 'n Guts". I am sorry you were unable to reach your goal as A Marine Officer.

Being a former Marine, "Once a Marine, Always a Marine", I could go into the drill," tear them down and build them up, make Marines out of them ", speech, but this is not the subject of this topic. I am somewhat surprised that the Marine you met didn't wait until he had your name on the dotted line before he slapped you around. LOL. Because once they have you, your butt belongs to the Marines. It has nothing to do with respect. Once you had become a Marine, you would have had all the respect you could handle.


With respect

Bill McKinnon

[angels355]

Thanks Bill,

I appreciate it. I didn't want to ever doubt in the future that I didn't make the best effort I could. More recently I've even written to Uncle Don and others. I totally don't understand that Lt. who I think is part of a Striker Brigade who refuses to ship out for action. I think it's better that he doesn't, I think there is something wrong with him, and who wants to follow a leader like that? In fact if I were under him I would object to his leadership.

More recently when there is action, or coming action, I volunteer any way. I used to study for fun WWII history (studied a little WWI, Korea, Vietnam also (read this book it's good "Phantom Over Vietnam" by Trotti USMC; he mentions in there something I think is very poignant to today, that the Marines when he started in Vietnam were a volunteer outfit, they wanted to be there and they had a good outlook and attitude. Those that were drafted and didn't want to be there had a very bad attitude and many had drug problems)}, I studied these areas of history, and the public's realization that they were at war in WWII was very evident. Whereas I think the public's attitude on the war in the Middle East, and the war against terrorism, is taken much lighter, as if each us will be safe and sound and left alone to enjoy our freedoms without any fear from the enemy if we just walked away and tried to make friends. That it's better to just make friends. Well I've been around a lot of foreigners that really didn't want to make friends despite how friendly I was. I've had Asian undergraduates want to try out their Kung Fu on me when I was minding my own business, but they backed down. Before 9-11 I was out cycling (up to 4 X 9 hours per week on a heavy road bicyle) and came up next to a couple of M.E. people in a crummy car listening to loud M.E. music, and as I had heard a few artists from the M.E. I tried being friendly and said hello, and had they tried out this or that artist. They returned my friendliness with blank, angry, hostile stares. Some people don't want to be friends and that is a difficult concept for some P.C. people to get a grasp on.

Any way, I volunteer for action or coming action any way in more recent years, as one of my previous bosses who was a great inspiration, was formerly in Marine Intelligence, and I always try to do my best to think like a Jarhead, and do what is really right, not just what is proper.

I have to get back to working out, when I was younger I nearly tried out for the US Team for the marathon, and more recently about 5 years ago I was doing up to 4 X 9 hrs/week on my 28 lb road bicycle (my racing shoes have become so worn out they're painful), and was working hard on my weightlifting. But the past two years I've been working so hard on my career development that I've completely neglected my workouts. I have to keep in mind that some jobs require a high level of fitness.

I think it was Boyngton in his book "Baa Baa Blacksheep" who spent time in a POW camp, said that you really understand what freedom is about when you hang your #### out in the service of your country in the fight for freedom.

Sorry for going off on this tangent off of the main subject. If anyone objects to this line of conversation, DROP AND GIVE ME A 100!!!!! :+