FSX vista and DX10

**flightsimmer747** · 08-30-2006, 03:10 PM

I'm looking to possibly upgrade hardware but I read FSX was designed for DX10 since this is only thing they had to work with no dx10 this may be simple bs or better yet even if you run fsx on dx10 it can look better but no benefit substantial enough to make sure you get a DX10 card. I personally don't mind waiting and getting VISTA as I've had problems with being scammed when purchasing winxp (it was a pirate version I paid full price for). Anyway is upgrading a good time now or should I wait for the whole dx10 thing and vista.
What are your experiences from what you read on these issues? If dx9 is enough for fsx why bother getting vista and/or expensive dx10 cards which will only be worth the cost in 1 year at that point we all know a new FS is in the works and maybe that one will be dx10 fully compatible because they could of designed it and tested with dx 10 in hand. As for an operating system being compatible like VISTA that is alot easier then claiming the game is designed for dx10. Because an operating system needs drivers a game on the other han if it was designed at 128 mb graphics it won't look or get better because you have 512mb card, 128 was enough. (this was just an example)

I've been away for a while so I wanted to catch up on the latest stuff.

Thanks!

**noell** · 08-31-2006, 09:10 AM

Here's what I think is the best plan for migrating to FSX, DX10 and Vista.

- FSX will run with DX9 and Windows XP. That means you will be able to get FSX and evaluate how it runs with your existing system before doing anything else. While doing that, read this forum for comments as a lot of us will be doing the same thing. You can download a demo of FSX right now if you want to have a look. Its at:
http://www.microsoft.com/games/fligh...downloads.html

- If everyone is saying that Vista is a "must have" beacuse it makes major improvements in FSX, get Vista. Vista is now slated for a January 30, 2007 release. Even when Vista is released, it is my understanding it will include DX10 as well as a version called "DX9.0L" in order to maintain backward compatibility. If you want to see how your current system stacks up for running Vista, you can get Microsoft's upgrade advisor tool here:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvist...r/default.mspx

- DX10 cards should be available about the time Vista is released. Again, I wouldn't rush to buy one until reading what other are saying and checking reviews. Keep in mind though, that if your current sytem is AGP, you won't find an AGP DX10 card for use in your system anyway as I would be very surprised if DX10 cards are released in anything but PCI-Express.

A word on upgrading a system - if you really want to upgrade now, I suggest going with Intel's new processor line called "Core 2 Duo". It has stolen the performance crown from AMD and will likely keep that crown for some time. The Core 2 Duo line only recently hit the market so they (and motherboards for same) can be hard to find. That will change fairly quickly so by mid-late fall you should be able to easily put together a system. As I alluded to earlier, graphics could be a bit of a problem if your old system is AGP. If you currently have an AGP graphics card in your current system, you would not be able to use it in a new Core 2 Duo system as motherboards for Core 2 Duo would be PCI-Express. In that case you would find yourself buying a PCI-Express graphics card that you will likely want to change out for a DX10 card not too far down the road.

....Noell

AMD Athlon 4000+ (San Diego) @ 2750MHz
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***loki*** · 08-31-2006, 11:22 AM

You could get this motherboard if you move to a Core 2 Duo system but want to keep an AGP card. It doesn't support SLI or Crossfire though.

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2814

loki

**flightsimmer747** · 08-31-2006, 02:01 PM

Thanks for that guys.

The core 2 duo is new so it will be sticking around for the future I'm not saying now is a good time to upgrade but the truth is the waiting will only really be for Vista and dx10 cards thats what all the hype is about it seems. Otherwise the duo system does it have a speed that constantly is realeased like example p4 2.8 to 3.0 the n 3.2 or is it it's own unique speed of it's own chipset?

Loki with the motherboard you directed me too means I can have a system with my old agp card and option to purchase dx10 card via pci express, as noell mentioned possibly no agp for dx10. From what I read and understood.

At that point vista can be purchased and finally an installation of FSX running on vista and dx10. Hmmmm sounds like I should wait if I convince myself to buy a dx10 card, thats whats holding me back and the fact that it's hard to beleive dx10 will make FSX that much better if/since it was designed during the dx9 time (era).

Not sure if I'm making myself clear hope I did.

**noell** · 08-31-2006, 04:39 PM

You are right in that Core 2 Duo is new and will be around for a while for sure. The thing to keep in mind is that Core 2 Duo is a significant, new architecture which has been shown to outperform (in most situations) all previous Pentium products and anything currently available from AMD. Also, Core 2 Duo chips consume considerably less power than previous chips. Not sure about your next query but, if you are asking about clock speeds, all Core 2 Duo chips have a clock speed rating. The clock speeds for the various models are:
Extreme X6800 2,933 MHz
Duo E6700 2,666 MHz
Duo E6600 2,400 MHz
Duo E6400 2,133 MHz
Duo E6300 1,866 MHz

You mentioned "does it (Core 2 Duo) have a speed that constantly is realeased". Again, I'm not quite sure what you mean but perhaps this is it:

Intel does have a method of auomatically adjusting the clock speed. It is called "SpeedStep". This feature requires BIOS and OS-level support and, when enabled, permits the operating system to implement a clock speed reduction through adjustment of the clock multiplier. For more on Core 2 Duo technology, try this link:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/07/..._64/page3.html

The motherboard Loki mentioned will indeed permit the use of either an AGP or a PCI-Express video card. I never mention these types of cards because I have had experience with two of them and I was not really very pleased. I found that, while they run OK and do provide a fexible upgrade path with reagrd to video cards, their performance in a gaming situation or when running a demanding simulation like FS9 fell significantly below that of boards not providing the dual video card option. Granted, the ones I tried were both socket 939 versions. Perhaps the Core 2 Duo versions perform better.

DX10 will make a big difference to games/simlations and how they run. Hopefully, FSX will reap some or all of the benefits as well. So, while you may be correct in saying FSX was developed during the "age of DX9", if what I'm reading is correct, the product will be patched to take advantage of DX10. This interview with Carl Edlund (a Software Development Manager at ACES Studio which is the internal Microsoft Games studio producing FSX) provides some incite into the FSX/DX10 realtionship:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...1989817,00.asp

DX10 is, IMO, quite revolutionary and is supposed to fix several performance and quality issues that game code writers have been wrestling with for a long time. To get to know more about what DX10 is supposed to accomplish, check this article:
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/articl...50aHVzaWFzdA==

....Noell

AMD Athlon 4000+ (San Diego) @ 2750MHz
CoolerMaster 'Aquagate 120' Liquid Cooling
ASUS A8N-SLI Premium
2GB Corsair TwinX2048-3500LLPro @ DDR500 (2.5-3-3-6&1T)
BFG 7900GTX OC (512MB) @ 670/1640MHz (Driver: XG91.45)
2 X 36GB WD Raptor (RAID 0)
74GB WD Raptor
120GB WD Caviar
SB Audigy Gamer
OCZ GameXStream 700W
Antec P180B case

**flightsimmer747** · 08-31-2006, 11:55 PM

I understand it better now thanks.

I guess waiting is better since the 1st generation cards (dx10) is what we have to see performance on and getting a duo core can be quite expensive right now because it just came in, also as you say finding a motherboard is also hard to find.

On a personal note what are your intentions if any on upgrading system? I'm thinking possibly late fall next year and if that starts feeling to long maybe spring next year?

**cascadesss** · 09-01-2006, 09:37 AM

I don't think we will have to wait that long at all to upgrade. By November/December the newer motherboards will be out, and I would imagine that the Core 2 processor's price will have dipped a little by then.

Many of us are waiting for the release of the new motherboards that will be implementing the new nvidia 590 chipset for the Intel processors. Once those are released, and if the benchmarks are good, you will see many of us upgrade then.

Unfortunately, it will be an expensive proposition to support DX10. New hardware (for most of us), new DX10 video board, and Vista.

If DX10 is as good as they are predicting, it will be well worth it.

Cheers!

**noell** · 09-01-2006, 10:15 AM

Although I'm really anxious to build Core 2 Duo, I'm planning to wait for several months. Earliest I'm saying (for today, anyway) is about April 2007. That way C2D mobos with the 590 CS will have been released and reviewed. Same goes for DX10 video cards. And Vista will have been released (and likely patched by then!) so it will be interesting to see what everyone says about that and how it runs FSX.

What I will do first is buy FSX as soon as it comes out. Not long after that I will likely move to Vista. Eventhough my system is now obsolete, it is still a reasonably capable system and I'm curious to find out how it runs FSX and Vista before I do anything. Actually, I'm looking forward to doing some serious benchmarking with FSX and Vista before I retire my trusty 939 system. That way I will be able to get a better idea of just how much of a performance improvement C2D provides.

....Noell

AMD Athlon 4000+ (San Diego) @ 2750MHz
CoolerMaster 'Aquagate 120' Liquid Cooling
ASUS A8N-SLI Premium
2GB Corsair TwinX2048-3500LLPro @ DDR500 (2.5-3-3-6&1T)
BFG 7900GTX OC (512MB) @ 670/1640MHz (Driver: XG91.45)
2 X 36GB WD Raptor (RAID 0)
74GB WD Raptor
120GB WD Caviar
SB Audigy Gamer
OCZ GameXStream 700W
Antec P180B case

**djt** · 09-01-2006, 10:24 AM

“Many of us are waiting for the release of the new motherboards that will be implementing the new nvidia 590 chipset for the Intel processors. Once those are released, and if the benchmarks are good, you will see many of us upgrade then.”

Some early reports are showing slightly less performance from the Nvidia 590 SLI Intel Edition compared to the nForce 4 SLI Intel Edition. Some are even reporting that the Intel 975 chipset is a much better overclocker and a better solution for Conroe.

I heard that there was talk right after the AMD/ATI acquisition that Nvidia had come to an agreement with Intel to get SLI support on Intel’s chipset, but nothing since then. SLI support with the 975 chipset might be the best combination for Nvidia video card users.

I’ve currently been eying this mobo for my E6700 / 2x 7900GTX setup –

http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?m...3&l2=11&l3=227

The board layout on the Asus P5N32-SLI Premium (590 SLI Intel Edition)is better than the P5N32-SLI SE Deluxe though -

http://zeus.asus.com/hq/products4.as...25&modelmenu=1

**noell** · 09-01-2006, 11:03 AM

I'm hoping to be able to stay away from ASUS for my C2D build.
I've got my eye on BFG and possibly MSI.

I'd really like to read any prelims on the performance of the 590 chipset. Can you provide the links?

Thanks,
....Noell