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Thread: I have a "good problem to have"

  1. #1

    Default I have a "good problem to have"

    Here's my problem - I seem to have plenty of computer to do what I want to do, but I lack the knowledge to make it happen...

    I can achieve 200fps in the Himalayas with all settings maxed out.

    What I can't do is make the sim run faster - not in terms of framerate, in terms of ground texture rendering.

    Capping framerates does nothing more than capping framerates.

    Reducing settings does nothing more than reducing settings.

    I get no framerate gains, or performance gains (defined as not having to wait for scenery to show up).

    I have the textbandwidthmult parameter in the cfg set to 400, high as it can go...

    I have the inner texture ring set at 9, and the extended too, but no difference with extended textures enabled or disabled.

    Bottom line, I seem to finally have the computer to run FS2004 as "we" think it should be able to, and I seem to be running into software limitations...

    What I'm really after here is some detailed info about the cfg.

    I'd guess the answer is in there, but I lack the time to really geek on it...

    This is not a "how can I make my underpowered computer overpower FS2004" question.

    This is a "how can I make my overpowered computer run FS as it COULD" question...




  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Mesquite, Nevada, USA.
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    Default RE: I have a "good problem to have"

    Hi Z,

    What weather conditions? - I'll assume 'Clear or few with high visibility > Cap your visibility to no more than 30 miles. I fly Real World Weather, so occasionally I do see some slow texture loads (not bad) on clear days.

    Ram timing? > Be sure your voltage setting in BIOS, matches what your ram calls for on their site. - Increasing mine from the default 2.5V, up to 2.75V (specified on Corsair's website) lowered my timing to what was advertised, and I did see a gain in texture rendering.

    (DISPLAY.Device.RADEON Drivers on Win2K/XP.0)
    Mode=1280x960x32
    TriLinear=1
    (DISPLAY)
    UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=24
    TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=80
    (TERRAIN)
    TERRAIN_ERROR_FACTOR=85.000000
    TERRAIN_MIN_DEM_AREA=30.000000
    TERRAIN_MAX_DEM_AREA=150.000000
    TERRAIN_MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL=19
    TERRAIN_TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP=8
    TERRAIN_AUTOGEN_DENSITY=5
    TERRAIN_USE_GRADIENT_MAP=1
    TERRAIN_EXTENDED_TEXTURES=1
    TERRAIN_DEFAULT_RADIUS=8.000000
    TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS=9.000000
    TERRAIN_EXTENDED_LEVELS=8

    Randy

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Default RE: I have a "good problem to have"

    Hi,
    Wondering why would you want any frame rate over 30? Maybe you were only joking.
    The eye begins to see smooth frame rates around 30. If you do have the rate set very high, that will affect your other graphics, while trying to maintain your very high framerate.

    Maybe you need to get a lower performance computer :) :)
    Good luck with your 'problem', and let us know if the settings Randy gave you helped out.
    Gary
    PS curious what system/ specs do you have?


  4. #4

    Default RE: I have a "good problem to have"

    Unfortunately I haven't yet had time to try anything at all lol.

    Why would I want framerates above 30? Because the faster the framerates the faster the ground textures render. I prefer to have 60 and above. Plus 60 just feels better than 30.

    I certainly don't need 200fps, which is why I'm looking for ways to use that excess power to speed up the ground texture rendering. Capping framerates does not achieve this.

    Specs are Athlon 64 3200, 1gig RAM, 7800GS videocard (256 meg).

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Default RE: I have a "good problem to have"

    Hi,

    You have tested your game using a locked frame rate? Say around 3- 35. The textures still don't render properly. Then, I suspect that you need to adjust osme other sliders in the display menu.
    You may be overestimating your system's power, While they are great specs, some of us still have problems even with fast systems, Maybe some fine tuning of other sliders is in order..
    As a test, put the sliders down to about half.... just as a test here. Now, are the textures rendering faster? DO you have weather on? AI traffic is it set at 100%?
    Start bringing up sliders and watching the results. There are some sliders that have more effect than others.This way you can work from the low end, and work up until your performance starts to give problems.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I don't think you have the right idea about the frame rate issue.
    I found this about the frame rate feature:

    >>>>>>This option is used to cap the fps in FS9 so resources are spared for other tasks (texture rendering, GPS, traffic etc...) than pumping as many frame rates as the system can. Make a few flights with your preferred settings and unlimited frame rates and note the average fps you can achieve, then lock your fps to an amount slightly below that average to keep a smooth flight and best image quality. A nice tool to log average frame rates is FRAPS <<<<<<

    So, if you are cranking out max rates, something else has to suffer, right? While your system is trying to maintain that high rate, it has no time to render the textures.

    Really anything over 30 or 35 is overkill. You watch a motion picture, you don't really see the individual frames, so it looks like fluid motion. I believe movies are projected at around 24 FPS.
    This still may be part of your problem. While the game will be smoother at unlimited, you will sacrafice performance in other areas.
    Just my 2c.
    Gary

  6. #6

    Default RE: I have a &quot;good problem to have&quot;

    Trouble is I don't get any gains in the desired area by making cuts in settings or framerates.

    What this really comes down to is my one and only longtime beef with FS - the fact that it's just not optimized for the view out the front window.

    In spot view I get GLORIOUS results.

    But that front window view, I just can't get it dialed. My machine is always stuck rendering that invisible ground below me...


  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Default RE: I have a &quot;good problem to have&quot;

    Hi,
    I just did some informal tests with my system. Sliders were set to medium high.
    I set the frame rate to unlimited.
    Panel views (2d) were a lot higher than the outside view overall. Getting 30 to 70 FPS

    No slowdown that I could see. You are right though higher frame rates do look better where there is motion such as panning outside very fast.
    But I don't do that regularly, and regular flying requires around 28 to 30, fine for me.

    QUOTE"But that front window view, I just can't get it dialed. My machine is always stuck rendering that invisible ground below me..."


    The only time something is rendered is when you are actually trying to see it. If you aren't looking out a window, the renderer will not waste time rendering something you can't see.I didn't see any slowdown when switching from 2D panel to side views.

    I found these settings that are supposed to help with the rendering of ground textures. Backup the FS9.cfg file, then add (replace) these settings for a test. I didn't see that big of a change, but it may work for you.
    UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=22
    TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=400


    [TERRAIN]
    TERRAIN_ERROR_FACTOR=100.000000
    TERRAIN_MIN_DEM_AREA=10.000000
    TERRAIN_MAX_DEM_AREA=100.000000
    TERRAIN_MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL=20
    TERRAIN_TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP=8
    TERRAIN_AUTOGEN_DENSITY=4
    TERRAIN_USE_GRADIENT_MAP=1
    TERRAIN_EXTENDED_TEXTURES=0
    TERRAIN_DEFAULT_RADIUS=10.500000
    TERRAIN_EXTENDED_RADIUS=4.500000
    TERRAIN_EXTENDED_LEVELS=6

    Let me ask, have you tried the default settings, and how well did they work? With a machine that is supposed to be fast, you should have no trouble with the textures, on default. I still suspect another issue with your system, if it doesn't run with default settings.
    In all previous versions of FS. I was able to view outside the window with no stutters. And this was running FS2002 on a 450mhz Pentium 3, with 16mb Voodoo card.
    Unless I was at a very high density/eye candy add on scenery, there was just no problem.

    My system now is faster but definately not the fastest for FS. Sony Pentium "D" Dual core- 2.8ghz, 1MB RAM ATI PCI Express X-300
    I have room for improvement, but don't need to yet.

    Try those settings, and lower your frame rate, see if it makes a difference.
    Are you striving for a good view out the front, such as on approach?
    Is it jittery? What is the frame rate when you are having these rendering problems?

    Hope some one else has some ideas to try, sorry I can't help more at this time.
    Gary








  8. #8

    Default RE: I have a &quot;good problem to have&quot;

    Oh I've tried default settings, via removing the cfg and letting FS make a new one.

    And FS does indeed render things you're not looking at.

    The ground directly below the plane is the focal point of ground texture rendering, regardless of what direction you're looking in (while in the VC).

    2d views do sort of prioritize based on the direction you're looking in, but the view out the front is still always rendered at a lower priority than the stuff beneath you.

    FS overall runs just fine on my rig.

    It's the age old problem of the airplane centric ground texture rendering that I'm trying to get around here.

    That "problem" is actually the most logical way, MS picked the right way to go here...

    It makes perfect sense to have it this way if you want to be looking out the side windows, let alone dipping your wings.

    It just involves quite the sacrifice with the forward view.

  9. #9

    Default RE: I have a &quot;good problem to have&quot;

    And here, finally, an official proof of what I've known for years now.

    Faster framerates = faster ground texture rendering (at least on the 4 computers I've run FS9 on)...

    --------------------

    The terrain system will only complete one terrain tile per frame. What this means that if your system is powerfull enough so that the fiber system is not starved of CPU cycles, and is therefore able to keep up with the production load, then the faster the framerate, the more tiles become available per second.


    -------------------

    Link...http://steve-lacey.com/blogarchives/...blurries.shtml


  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Default RE: I have a &amp;quot;good problem to have&amp;quot;

    >>>>>>This option is used to cap the fps in FS9 so resources are spared for other tasks (texture rendering, GPS, traffic etc...) than pumping as many frame rates as the system can.<<



    "if your system is powerfull enough so that the fiber system is not starved of CPU cycles, and is therefore able to keep up with the production load, then the faster the framerate, the more tiles become available per second."

    IF your system is powerful enough OR if your system has no other problems. If it isn't you see the frame rate take priority over other things like rendering, ATC, AI Traffic, Weather....

    So, if the other 4 computers had run ok, then it must be the system you are running now.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    From Mr.Lacy's site:
    the main loop in the application keeps track of how long a frame takes to run and it has a target frame rate. The time left over is given to the fiber system. If there isn’t any time left over, the fiber system is given a minimal amount of time to run so that some work gets done, but it ain’t gonna be pretty.

    This is what happens when you set your target frame rate in the settings section to “unlimited” on a system that can’t cope.
    When running with an unlimited target frame rate (or any target that your system cannot achieve), the fiber system is starved of time, work items take a long time to finish and you end up with a blurry terrain until (if ever) the system finally catches up.
    If you’re flying at 500 knots and your system is not capable of keeping up with the processing needed, the fiber system may never catch up.
    So what’s my recommendation? Drop the “lock to frame rate” slider to a level that the system can maintain.
    Then drop it a little bit more. Give the system some time to do something else other than just render triangles as fast as possible.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    His explanation says it better than I could. "Lock to frame rate" a level that the system can maintain.

    Just because you *can* run 100 FPS doesn't mean that the whole system can maintain that AND your other processes (the "fiber" multi tasking system of FS).

    I think maybe you should post a thread at the hardware forum, as you may get more responses there.I have a feeling that they will say the same as Mr. Lacy. I think we are going nowhere here.

    http://www.flightsim.com/dc/dcboard....topics&forum=7


    Hey, good luck with your system, and your settings.
    Gary.

    PS,
    Give these tips a try they may help on your problem:
    http://www.flightsim.com/dc/dcboard....d=153326&page=

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