FARs

[LOT_Pilot]

For PP ground school, I have a choice between 61 and 141 for ground school, and it would be nice if I chose before my next lesson (Tuesday). 141 looks very tempting, but the benefits will come later one. Part 61 feels like something where you jump into a 152 and work your way up the FI route or just stop at your PPL. Which one would be better for a PPL? I do plan on going for Commercial IFR at some point, hence my lessons in a 172.

[flyinggriffin]

Doesn't matter what section the school operates under if the student does not receive the proper training. Before I moved out west, the flight instructor I was using had all the ratings including ATP. He did this all under part 91.

First and foremost you have to learn to FLY! Not to program an FMC not to fiddle with radios and knobs but to understand the basics of flight and ingrain them so that no matter what goes wrong you have a shot at pulling the coals out of the fire. Forget what airplane you use. It takes at most 3 hours to transition between a C152 and a Skyhawk. It only took me 5 hours to go between a Skyhawk and a Skylane RG and I felt comfortable with just flying the bird after the first hour. No, what you want to look for is quality instruction. If you concentrate on the hardware you my not get the knowledge that one day may save your life and the lives of any passengers.

Don't put the private ticket down. I know a number of instrument rated private pilots I would trust more in a light plane than guys who have only flown military hardware and then transports. It is a whole different world between the heavy iron and general aviation. Airline pilots seem to mess up when flying light aircraft just as badly as the lowely private pilot. Its not the certificate, its the person holding it.

P.S. I hold a private certificate, instrument rated and will proabably some time when the money is there, get my commercial. I have no plans to go the airline route, perhaps some instruction. I just love flying.

Finally, ask yourself this question. If I were to get in the left seat of an airliner and for some reason failed the medical. Would I still want to fly? A lot of airline pilots are wistful about the free days when they could fly when they wanted to, where they wanted. Just food for thought.

[Jeff S KDTW]

Grzegorz -

Are you training in the US? I assumed you were training in Poland.

Anyway, choosing between Part 61 or 141 at the PPL is not that critical. If you start Part 61, you can still jump to Part 141 for your instrument and/or commercial training.

It sounds like you have already found an instructor you like, which is the biggest battle.

The benefits of Part 141 at this stage, namely 5 less minimum hours and the syllabus, are really inconsequential. The odds are you will require more than 35 hours (under Part 141) and there is even a good chance you will require more than 40 hours (under Part 61), so that's a wash.

The syllabus required for Part 141 is also of lesser importance. I think it is important to have "organized and well thought out lessons", but you can get that through Part 61 also.

I personally did my PPL under Part 61 to afford a bit more flexibility during training from a lesson plan standpoint. I then completed my instrument training under Part 141.

[lazlo123]

what was the difference between 61 and 141... ? One is like... college credit or something and one isn't, is that right? hmm.... sorry, no help to your question..

[Jeff S KDTW]

>what was the difference between 61 and 141... ? One is
>like... college credit or something and one isn't, is that
>right? hmm.... sorry, no help to your question..

Technically, it is the Part of the Federal Aviation Regulations that the school is certified under. However, many schools are certified under both.

At the PPL level, the differences are minimal:

Part 61
40 minimum hours

Part 141
35 minimum hours

(The national average in the US is in the range of about 55-70 hours before the applicant is ready for the checkride.)

At the instrument rating level, the main difference is that under Part 141, the 50 Pilot In Command Cross Country time requirement of Part 61 is waived.

At the commercial level, the main difference is that under Part 141 the total time requirements are 190 hours vs. 250 hours under Part 61.

NOTE--there are more differences between the two, but the above differences are probably the most notable.

[hylander_1]

I got my private pilot certificate under part 61 but the number of hours I had wasn't really relevant at that point, because I had about 150 or something hours when I took my checkride. :-tongue I really need to take a look in my logbook, because I honestly can't remember exactly how many hours of total time I have at this point. Also I haven't logged the last two flights I was on, although I still remember the times on each; 1.5 and 1.8 (Amazing, that was back in August!). I'm planning on taking IFR soon, but I'm not sure when. After all, I am a full-time college student. It doesn't really matter what you choose at this point, because it will not really make a huge difference in the long run.

Regards,
hylander_1
http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/Use...c4752fa27e.jpg

"Don't you just love the look on people's faces when you talk about aviation and they don't understand a word that you are saying?":-)

[icebrain]

>For PP ground school, I have a choice between 61 and 141 for
>ground school, and it would be nice if I chose before my
>next lesson (Tuesday). 141 looks very tempting, but the
>benefits will come later one. Part 61 feels like something
>where you jump into a 152 and work your way up the FI route
>or just stop at your PPL. Which one would be better for a
>PPL? I do plan on going for Commercial IFR at some point,
>hence my lessons in a 172.

Personally, I'd go for whichever one involves the least contact with the FAA, at least for the private ticket. For advanced ratings, the benefits (less time required and such) could outweigh the less-FAA part. In general, I'd try to avoid dealing with the FAA whenever possible--unless you're taking a checkride or something, they can only hurt you.

[hylander_1]

<<In general, I'd try to avoid dealing with the FAA whenever possible--unless you're taking a checkride or something, they can only hurt you.>>

Ok, I'm not a big fan of the FAA either, but I don't think I would go quite that far. I'm not sure what you meant by that statement, because the FAA is not out to get pilots, but to set the guidelines for the safety and well being of all pilots as well as our fellow citizens who are not pilots. The FAA is responsible for laying down the rules of flight training, pilot certification, aircraft airworthyness, etc. If the FAA had no imput on my pilot certificate, then I could essentially do any little thing that I wanted in the airplane, and that could mean putting my passengers in danger. Would you want someone perfectly incompetent at the controls of your airliner?! Would you want a bottle dropped on your head or would you want me to give you a buzz job while you were enjoying a nice walk through a field? The answer is NO! These are examples of things that the FAA prevents from happening in the FAR's, because they don't want foolish people to endanger the lives of others by either doing stupid things or by not knowing a thing about flying. Can anyone else please back me up here?

Regards,
hylander_1
http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/Use...c4752fa27e.jpg

"Don't you just love the look on people's faces when you talk about aviation and they don't understand a word that you are saying?":-)

[LOT_Pilot]

I'm still alittle unsure about the 141 and 61 thing, it's just that at this point, I might feel alittle bad about taking 61 over 141, but I'll have to overcome that anyway. But if I understand what I read 100%, then I can start under 61, then nearing the end of my private lessons, I can transition into 141? or do I transition after I complete my lessons?

Jeff - I am in the US for college, then back to Poland for work...

[Jeff S KDTW]

>I'm still alittle unsure about the 141 and 61 thing, it's
>just that at this point, I might feel alittle bad about
>taking 61 over 141, but I'll have to overcome that anyway.
>But if I understand what I read 100%, then I can start under
>61, then nearing the end of my private lessons, I can
>transition into 141? or do I transition after I complete my
>lessons?

Why would you "feel bad" about choosing Part 61 instead of Part 141?

And, just to clarify, you can't typical change from Part 61 to Part 141 midway through your PP training. You ~can~ change after you get your PPL.