Reallife pilots out there, fs9 learning ability?

**Mikeboy** · 09-11-2003, 11:03 PM

Just to add another story

Yes i have been using this simulator for quiet a while and i think is very fun. One time i finally got the chance to go on a real airplane ( cessna 172 ) and i knew it was going to be a great experience. However i never thought it would be so much different than the simulator. I told the pilot i have used the Sim before and i was a little familiar with the control. We taxied down the rwy and soon gave me the controls. That is when i noticed is was not going to be the same. Line up with the rwy we were when finally tower clear us for take off. Wow it was great feeling. Well i pulled back the controls i actually applied to much pressure and the plane made a little of a steep climb, not to bad but it felt weird. Since i used the Sim before i thought it would be the same thing , it wasnt'. The pilot just laugh a little and corrected me a little and soon i was getting the hang out it. I flew throught out the whole flight. Made some turns, climbs and decends, it was great. I found out there many more things you need to worry about in a real thing more than in the simulator. Right there i knew, the sim and the real thing will never be the same. Unfortunally i did not get to land the plane. I would have not dare to anyways, there were crosswinds and the plane was bumping up and down. I would have never felt this in the SIm. I did however fly the approach ( with the pilots instructions of course ) and he eventually took over about 3 miles out and landed the plane.

That day was one of the greatest days of my life. I will never forget it. Now is the Sim bad, No, infact i think is great. It gave me an overview what the controls look and what i expect to see in the air. There are more things one needs to take in account in the real world. After i finished with my flight , i went home and did it on simulator. I could not believe i flew the same route just a few hours ago.

So just to repeat what everybody said before. The simulator will not teach you how to land a real plane.

**fsc_JL** · 09-11-2003, 11:48 PM

One thing I don't think anyone has mentioned yet is the Flight Model. If you stick with MS' version of Cessna's, you can forget ever being able to translate that into anything useful in the real thing.

However, step into the DreamFleet Cessna 152 and you have a chance, although maybe a small one, of flying the real thing successfully after maybe a couple hours in it practicing slow flight.

I've flown the Cessna 172 and 152 (for real) and that's why I mention this, MS' flight modeling is lousy (and that's being nice), DreamFleet's is much closer to the real thing. And no, I'm not a DreamFleet 'disciple'... their Cessna 152 is my first and only plane by them and I'm pretty amazed at how 'realistic' (for a PC sim) it is.

Captain_Slarty · 09-12-2003, 06:18 AM

no there aint dood.. its still flying.. :-)

I did 3 perfect landings.... all in my log book... it is no big deal...

most is totally over-rated... flying is flying.. and, flying a 767 flat out into a building is not easy.. if you check out the second '67 into the south tower, he only just made it.

Once you know where things are and the appropriate limitations, it is amazingly easy for a skilled ga pilot.. perhaps you should try it :-lol

**flyinggriffin** · 09-12-2003, 07:44 AM

Anybody seen Buffy around, or at least borrow one of her wooden stakes? This subject keeps popping up after it is dead :)

The one thing everyone who wonders if they could fly an airliner, Learjet, hangglider etc is the thing that will kill you quickest, Fear.

If most pilots look back honestly at their solos, they will remember being at the very least a little nervious and in some cases scared out of their minds. We got through it despite the nerves because we were trained. Can you imagine how some who just saw their pilot slump over the yoke would feel?

Watch the show Fear Factor. They do stunts there that scare the living daylights out of contestants even though the worst that can happen is a few real good bumps and bruses.

Experienced pilots also forget how difficult things were when they started. Now, I can shoot an approach though the clouds, find the airport, land on a dime and keep up a running conversation with the tower. First time out in a C152 I couldn't even find the airport without prompting.

**ladamson** · 09-12-2003, 08:20 AM

>One thing I don't think anyone has mentioned yet is the
>Flight Model. If you stick with MS' version of Cessna's, you
>can forget ever being able to translate that into anything
>useful in the real thing.
>
IMO----

If you can't sucessfully land the default Cessna 172/182's............. then you don't have a chance! :) These two planes are "cake" to land despite any inperfections for slow flight.

When we speak of "lousy" flight models, I've tried truely lousey & quickly dismiss them. The MS models are always somewhere between lousey & acceptable............ but at least usually flyable. I'm not to hot on some of the new ground handling characterisitics of the FS2004 taildraggers though.

Ladamson

**atr_42_500** · 09-12-2003, 10:48 AM

Maybe I'm wrog, but I think it is possible even by a rookie with help from the ground.
That is if he can operate the radios :-)

I know a traffic controller who went on a A340 real sim and managed to land it. I suppose threr were not wund simulated but he flwe it manually only with A-THR on.

Nice flights,
Mircea.
http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/Use...fe714be027.jpg
Fly to LROP!

**rfields5421** · 09-12-2003, 11:10 AM

I spend about 1,200 hours as a crew member on US Navy EC-121N and C-121J aircraft in the early 70's, maybe 10% of those hours in the cockpit. I've sat in the jump seat for several takeoffs and landings. I've even had the yoke in my hand for easy turns during cruise flight. Always extremely carefully supervised. (Lockheed Super Constellation)

I've learned more about how to fly the plane from FS2002 than I ever did in the cockpit, because I'm trying to learn how to fly the plane. The pilots and flight engineer didn't teach me how to fly that plane because they knew I'd NEVER really fly one.

Re: the DC-3 - those old radial recip engines are lovely to hear and feel, but one real pain in the rear to maintain and fly. That's why the larger planes had flight engineer's - a third cockpit crew member. In fact those planes were so busy to fly our Navy C-121's carried a dedicated crew member just to handle the radio frequency changes, etc. (My job). And most carried a navigator to handle that job. The pilots in those old birds were too busy just flying.

If you want a real DC-3 simulation experience - get two friends together and all of you work together to fly.

I personally would never trust my life or my family/friends to my "flying skills" from FS.

There is a reason the FAA has two catagories of trainers - FLIGHT SIMULATORS and FLIGHT TRAINING DEVICES. Microsoft Flight Simulator doesn't even come close to the FTD catagory.

IT'S A GAME!!!

**padds** · 09-12-2003, 11:37 AM

One of the main things you miss with Flightsim is the feel. Using the sim I have grown a full awareness of the instruments and a good handle on what does what, however its nothing like the real thing in the end.

For instance, even with pedals on your sim, I would wager you will still drive down a taxiway like a drunk in the real thing (personal experience!). You see in the sim how the trim wheel happily goes back and forth all the time, you adjust it easily.... in an actual Cessna the thing is the size of a plate and unbelievably sensitive, 100% unlike the wheel in the FS model.

You play with FS for a time and you have an image in front of you of a panel and outside, you learn to watch this one space in front of your face for everything..... do that in a real plane and you will have unhappy times in the pattern. Instrument fixation was something I thankfully quickly realized I had on my first flight, but its a terrible habit to break.

You watch the instruments during takeoff cruise and landing, you know where they all should be and you nail landings every time.... ok now try that in the real thing where mother nature insists on pointing your plane in the wrong direction, the air seems to change from soup to vacuum every 3 seconds.

On a beautiful summers day you climb out, weather looks great, then you turn towards the sun and the mix of it and haze makes you feel like your flying in a milk jug. You look down for that railroad your supposed to follow and see nothing that remotely looks like one, unless you have the practical experience to see the trees lined up and the unnatural arrangements.

Flight training seems to me to be a case of training you to fly with no instruments, engine or radio, and when you have these things its a bonus. Its a worst case scenario training, and in the end most of what you do up there you do by feeling, with the instruments confirming it.

Now I dont mean to say that a Flightsim user would not hand a 172 for instance, I think a good FS user has a good chance, IF the weather cooperates, if they keep a level head (biggest part really) and they have a good amount of luck. Of all aircraft I personally (am not experienced enough to say this for certain) think the Cessnas would give somebody the best chance of doing this. In the end though the comparison of holding a yoke in a room at home and flying and holding a yoke in a machine that if abused will kill you and others is just not there....

I do strongly beleive it will help though in respects of knowledge, navigation and general cockpit usage. I got into my first flight and knew were everything was, knew what each gauge did.

Oh and one last point in this ramble.... FS doesnt even match the sheer joy, pleasure, thrill, excitment, intensity, enjoyment etc.... of flying the real thing. Heck just flying a pattern is like being in heaven :)

-Jonathan

**gandalf** · 09-12-2003, 11:48 AM

After giving it a thought, I think I surely would be able to land a modern airliner whose pilots had died. That is because these things can land automatically nowadays. Keeping it in the air and flying it around wouldn't be that hard with the basic knowledge of flight controls FS provides. And after some time you would get someone on the radio who is experienced an that type of aircraft and tell you which buttons to push to get the computer to land. So, maybe this is considered cheating, but down it would get.