What is Flare?

[saa7]

Hi,

I have often seen while explaining alot of people using this term Idle thortle and Flare and Flaring for Landing....

Thanxs

[Mike_Luchia]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON May-24-03 AT 01:05PM (EDT)[/font][p]The point, just before touchdown, where you raise the nose and allow airspeed to bleed off allowing you to gently touch down, main wheels first. (my Websters Dictionary version anyhow :) )

Mike

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mluchia@telus.net

[bigal1977uk]

I usually initiate the flare at about 30ft above the runway threshold where i first pull the throttle to idle then at about 20ft i slowly pull the nose of the aircraft up so instead of losing say 400-500fpm you lose only 100-200fpm, this will make for a nice soft landing aswell as bleeding any excess speed off.

Just my 2 cents anyway :)


Alan


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[ladamson]

There are a few different terms, that have slightly different meanings, depending on who you talk to. I consider the leveling off at around thirty feet or so, as the "roundout". In a small GA aircraft, this is the transition from nose down to about level. Then as speed drops & I approach the runway, I pull the nose up into the "flare" and hold it off with gradual increase in elevator until flying speed is lost & the mains touch.

I've heard others switch the terms flare & roundout, or not use the roundout term at all. ????

Ladamson

[lnuss]

I'm not sure I've ever seen a precise definition of "flare," or of "roundout" for that matter, but to me roundout and flare are pretty much the same thing. In either case you are talking about stopping the descent of the aircraft (describing a somewhat curved flight path in the vertical plane), while slowing to let the aircraft land. The flare (or roundout) pretty much ends (in my estimation) once the aircraft is holding a foot or so off the ground.

For the above mentioned 30-foot start of flare, that is very much dependent on aircraft, speed, weight, winds, altitude, rate of descent, how much power you are carrying, obstacles, etc. -- and finally and most important, pilot judgement. Basically, start easing the nose up in time to proceed to a gentle level-off without using too much runway, then hold the aircraft 6 inches to a foot off the ground at idle power (most aircraft), until it settles in on its own.

The actual altitude for starting the flare is something I've never observed, since I'm too busy trying to judge the aircraft behavior and correct for any odd conditions to look at the altimeter (and is it set right? is it accurate?). But 20-40 feet is probably typical for most light aircraft, depending on conditions and pilot choice. Still, if you are loooking at the altimeter at this point, you will likely not make a good landing, since your attention will be focused on the wrong information.

[HR]
Larry N.

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[ladamson]

>I'm not sure I've ever seen
>a precise definition of "flare,"
>or of "roundout" for that
>matter, but to me roundout
>and flare are pretty much
>the same thing.

Yes, it's just one of those things people have different interpertations of. For instance, I looked up "roundout & airplane" on an internet search. Here is one definition:

Steps involved in landing a light airplane:
Approach
"Roundout" (level off at start of the flare)
Flare (slowing down while increasing the angle of attack)
Touchdown (on main gear)

And yet another "Fly the Airplane" website uses the term "roundout" entirely in place of "flare" with no mention of flare whatsover.

I had never heard the term "roundout" during flight instruction until going up in a two seat Quicksilver Ultra-light with an instructor. He used the term as the transition we were going to make from a nose down descent to leveling off while speed farther decays. Of course, once hearing the term, I occasionally here it more often.

Ladamson

[chasw]

I have also heard 'roundout' used to describe leaving the runway at the end of the landing run.
Scary thought, that misunderstanding.

Chas

[KenG01]

I was taught on this line of thinking, Larry.

I was taught to keep the 2 separate in my mind. The roundout is to retard your rate of descent. At that point, you'd better not be going too fast or the roundout will lead into a float.

The flare is the part of the landing that immediately follows the roundout and is in a way part of the roundout. It's simply where you increase your angle of attack to reduce airspeed. Excess speed in this phase is really bad for causing floating and ballooning.

I do realize that it is a matter of semantics as they are two very connected exercises. However, my CFI just wanted to enforce the fact they are designed to accomplish 2 different goals. The roundout: to reduce rate of descent to a level that won't wreck the plane. The flare, to reduce the speed of the plane as much as possible before landing. A further reduction in rate of descent is also usually accomplised during the flare.


Regards,
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[flyinggriffin]

I thought the roundout was simply the inital stage of the flare since it is almost impossible to go directly from a glide to level flight. Well..it possible, but I really don't want to be in the plane with someone who goes from a glide to level 6 inches from the pavement :)

I also remember quite a bit of controversy on the subject concerning if the airplane actually stalls or just settles so slowly you can't tell.

[lnuss]

Stall or settle? Whether the aircraft stalls or just settles to the ground depends on the type of aircraft, the type of landing, and what the pilot does. Obviously, a wheel landing in a conventional gear aircraft (excuse me, taildragger) is not a stall landing. Equally obviously, a tri-gear aircraft landed 3-point (ouch!) is not a stall, either.

In a Cub though, for example, if you make a 3-point landing, the aircraft is not quite stalled, though very close, but if you make a tailwheel first landing (easy to do, and fairly common) it might be stalled, depending on how the maneuver is done. Some (many?) tri-gear aircraft will bang the tail before stalling, and in those that don't you still have to have the nose pretty high before it is a stalled landing. Since you are in ground effect and close to the ground, a stall can seem like settling in.

So I'd say that most landings are not full stalls, but it is possible to do so with some aircraft.

[HR]
Larry N.

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