The Best MD-80 Flight Sim? Opinions? Suggestions?

[captnex]

I fly the MD-80 and am looking for a good MD-80 sim along the lines of my Eric Ernst's 767 PIC (eric and I fly together). Preferably one that I can load up easy or does it itself...I can fly the plane, but these computers are pretty scary!!!

He made one for the FS98/2000, but I would like one for the FS2002. Is the IRON KNUCKLES DC-9 sim worth the money? I looked at some of the cockpit BMP's and it looks pretty ##### close to the plane!

Anyway, fly safe and I would appreciate some suggestions.

C G (American Airlines Mad Dog Driver)

[clamper]

Can't help you with the MD80 but the Iron Knuckles DC9 is most definitely worth it. It took me over an hour just to get the confounded thing started but I loved every minute of it.

A Proud Clamper

[heyer]

Concerning the "Iron Knuckles" please read what Commander Stellan Hilmerby c/o SAS found out. He flies Douglas aircrafts for more than 22 years now:

"Ther is a rewiev of the Flight1 DC9 panel on www.flightsim.com and a couple of SVA members have asked me to state my opinion and especielly specify whats wrong with this panel. The rewiever thinks itīs something as good as PIC767. WHAT A SHAME!!!

Well, her we go.

This is a list of the most spectacular faults in this panel, related to the real DC9. It seems as if the Team behind this panel, never saw a real DC9 cockpit and I canīt figure out why they havenīt asked someone with knowledge. This is a good try, but why not make it right. The list could be VERY,VERY long almost every system/switch is wrong.

Lets start from a so called "cold cockpit".

In their Handbook they suggest you to start the APU and then connect the External PWR. I donīt know why, in real life we do this in the other order. With the APU running there is no need for the External PWR. Normally we have the EXT PWR connected , the APU OFF and do all cockpit preparation in this mode. We may use the RIGHT AIRCONDITION SYSTEM and open the RAM AIR to get ventilation. If the temperature is to low/high we start the APU and use APU BLEED AIR to maintain a comfortable a temperature in the cabin.

1. The APU. A real APU on idle will have around 350š EGT. This will not be more until we demand something from it. In case the RAM DOOR is closed the APU will NOT start (it has nothing to do with the EGT). The RAM DOOR Switch should be set to AUTO for all normal operation (itīs locked in that position). The normal starter switch will then open the door in position RUN, then the APU will start. The door will close again at 95% rpm.

When selecting AIR ON you should see the pressure on the little gauge on the "Engine starter panel". When selecting "Air condition ON" which is normally done by the right system, there should be indication of pressure in the corresponding meter (above the switch). The the EGT of the APU will then start rising.

In this panel the EGT of the APU actually will get lower??? with the Air condition ON!!!

2. The switch on the "Engine starter panel" called APU STARTER SWITCH has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Pneumatic pressure system. This switch is a small electrically driven FUEL PUMP. Used when starting the APU without External PWR connected.

3. The Ignition system on a DC9 is controlled by ONE !! switch. The 3 position is 1 OFF, 2 GRD START & CONTIN and 3 IGN OVR. Normal engine start will be done in pos 2, this position is used from engine start until Climb checklist is read also with ENG ANTI ICE ON and during rain and turbulens. Pos 3 is used during take off in heavy precipitaion and only for 2 minutes.

4. The AC Cross tie switch should under all normal operation be set to ARMED. This is to ensure that the left and right electrical system is separated. In case of a fault in one of the systems, the other will automatically be connected via the Cross Tie relay. In case there is a shortcut in one of the systems, the Cross Tie will not connect.

5. The Hydraulic system should read 3000PSI, not 1000. In the real DC9 there are two levels 3000PSI which is used during take off until Climb checklist and during landing from Descend checklist. With 1500PSI the Landing Gear and Flaps will not move. This panel should by placed down on the right side of the main panel, not on the overhead.

6. There is a priority in the Electrical system. Number one is the engine driven generators, number two APU generator and number three the External power. With external power connected and when the APU is started automatic switching will occur. Same thing when the engines are started, as soon as the corresponding generator is active it will take over the Electric system on that side. This also means that the blue lights EXTERNAL PWR AVAILABLE and APU PWR AVAILABLE will still be ON. Until the power source is disconnected. The only thing that should happen on the panel is that the small round lights (green in this panel but blue in the real A/C) should go out. With External PWR or the engine driven generators supplying power, nothing should happen if you set the Battery switch to OFF. The APU (if running) will shut off.

7. On the Annunciator the yellow light "APU ON" should stay ON as long as the APU is ON and the engine driven generators supply power. After APU is shut down, this light should go out.

8. The blue light "RUDDER TRAVEL UNRESTRICTED" should be on below approximately 175KTS. It is essential that this light is out during cruise in order to have the rudder travel restricted. The light should come on again below 148KTS. If this does not happen the cross wind limitation is 12KTS.

9. The light "MACH TRIM INOP" should NOT be on. This is a system to help maintain level flight in high Mach. If this light is on it indicates that something is wrong with the system and there will be speed restrictions.

10. The BOW TIE indicator on the main panel (above the ADI)is NOT an annunciator to show which part of the Autopilot that is in use. This is a system that reads the values on different instruments in the right and left side of the cockpit. If the values differ to much, there will be yellow light (comparator light) and sometimes also the big Arrows. To indicate that there is a problem. The Arrows will be RED or GREEN and point in the direction of the faulty side (RED Arrow) and to the side with correct instruments (GREEN Arrow).

11. The yellow handle above the horizon is an EMERGENCY SELECTOR in the Hydraulic system.The two instruments behind he handle will show the pressure in the Accumulators. This handle is locked by a wire and only used in connection with a "Total Hydraulic Failure". The instruments will show 3000PSI. With NO hydraulic pump working the pressure will drop when the parking brakes are set and be restored as soon as the hydraulic system is pressurized.

12. Normally all Switches in the Overhead panel should have the ON position Down. This goes for the "FUEL PUMP PANEL" as well as the "AIR CONDITION".

13. The DC9 is equipped with an rather simple Auto throttle. It is not capable of keeping the CRUISE SPEED or to set TAKE OFF THRUST. The A/T will only adjust the throttles to obtain and maintain a safe flying speed as calculated by the speed command system. (The same system that will move the circle that should be the the left on the ADI). With clean A/C the speed will be 220-240 KTS and with flaps extended the corresponding minimum speed. This A/T is normally not used, itīs clumsy and there is no need to operate this A/C at minimum speeds during the approach. Instead we gradually reduce the speed using manual throttle all the time."

As I posted before things just won't become more realistic only by beeing somehow complicated! But she looks pretty; maybe that's OK for 25 US$.

Regards,

[link:www.scandva.org/|http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/Use...23030695d.jpg]

[clamper]

WOW! I read the critique of the Iron Knuckles DC9 and I am humbled. In real life I have never flown anything bigger than a DC3 (about 600+ hours) so to read that my latest addition is not very realistic sure takes the wind from my sails. Thanks for your honesty and taking the time to write.

A Proud (but deflated) Clamper

[heyer]

C'mon Harold,

life goes on! ;-) I'm sure that you'll get inflated again after having tried the one you can get at this site: http://www.bahnhof.se/~classic/

Don't expect the latest eyecandy tricks while beeing "at the office" but I just don't know any DC-9 beeing more realistic!

Regards and A3G,

[link:www.scandva.org/|http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/Use...23030695d.jpg]

[Lorenzo]

While, I can certainly understand Commander Hilmerby's umbrage at the liberties Flight 1 has taken with his "office", I can assure you if you've never seen a real DC-9 cockpit before you won't be disappointed. I think within the confines of the FS2K2 virtual world, the Iron Knuckles package is first rate.

If you'll notice, most of the good Commander's objections involved switches being assigned or used incorrectly, not that they were missing or in the wrong place.

Ignorance is most definitely bliss in this case.

Larry

[heyer]

You did buy it, didn't you? But you didn't read the entire review. Or maybe you just didn't understand it...

Ignorance is most definitely bliss in this case. Affirmative! The ignorance of the developers or their employers.

Regards,

[link:www.scandva.org/|http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/Use...23030695d.jpg]

[Lorenzo]

Hi Michael,

I read the review and understood all of the Commander's objections. I just felt it was much ado about nothing. A tiny fraction of us have seen or will see the cockpit of a DC-9, let alone operate the systems or even fly one. Hence, it really makes little difference if IK is spot on realistic. It's close enough for we "ignorant" masses.

Happy New Year,
Larry

[USAir]

I agree with Lorenzo....I have the Iron Knuckles sim and it's one of the best payware addons I believe you can buy....definitely worth it. As for the problems you stated, send them to Flight One so they can fix them and improve the airplane (I would like to fly the most realistic version I can!!!). As for now, I love the package.

[USAir]

I sent the posts to Flight1 and many people are arguing there over the realism (Including some other DC-9 pilots). It seems they aren't overly willing to focus the teams effort over an update but I guess we will see!!!!

Regards,
David