Slow flight and lateral stability

Gang,

I decided to get serious about learning to fly. I did slow flight in the Schweizer 2-32 and the JF Flying Club Cessna 152. They seemed less mushy than they should have been and I'm wondering if I can change their aircraft.cfg files to decrease their lateral stabilty. Anybody know?

Thanks,

Sean

Hi Sean, you can adjust the settings in the [flight_tuning] section of the aircraft.cfg files. The default figure for most parameters is 1.0 (100%). Note that if you change that to 0.75 (75%) you have reduced that parameter TO 75%, not BY 75%. You'll get a further boost by moving all the Realism sliders in your Settings menu to 100% and by using the Real Weather option in your Weather menu.

Btw I've flown a couple of gliders, an ASK21 and an old ASK13, and both were positively twitchy especially on ailerons even at (comparatively) low airspeed.

I don't recommend you do any 'tuning' with Flight Tuning if you want to do aerobatics tuning. You need to go into air file (use AirEd) and change the aileron, roll and pitch 'FACTOR' values in Section 1101 (Flight Dynamics). Change it to a higher number. Start by setting 3x of what is there (highlight and overwrite then hit enter then SAVE, go reload default AC, then reload AC you are modifying) and then bracket down to get the feel / control (ie: roll rate, etc) you want. BE SURE TO MAKE A BACKUP OF AIR FILE BEFORE YOU DO ANY EDITS. Cheap insurance.

And you should set Realism to MEDIUM and LOCK IT at that setting - Easy and Hard just do not work as people THINK it works (it's wishful thinking - and is the usual 'rookie' mistake).

Chuck B

Napamule

Actually, what I am experiencing is no 'mushy' feeling when I slow down, all the way to the stall in my Just Flight Flying Club Cessna 152. I can't get a wing to drop, I just let my joystick go a little forward and I am not stalling any more. Now, I've just spent the last two hours downloading who knows how many hundreds of millions of dollars of aircraft from the files section, and also an eagle, which is priceless as our national bird of course. I can't remember which one said it can be spun, from looking at the file names, but it is a plane similar to the Pitts Special. I will come back if I am able to install these planes and say what the name is and the name of the file for your guys.

I'll try the other things suggested and report back, too.

Ah, I just found the Schweizer 2-33A and earlier I downloaded the California thermals package so I can take Dad's advice and start in gliders first (for purposes of finally beginning sort-of rigorous training instead of just experimenting and sight seeing.)

Best,

Sean

Actually, what I am experiencing is no 'mushy' feeling when I slow down, all the way to the stall in my Just Flight Flying Club Cessna 152. I can't get a wing to drop,

This morning I reset the "Realism" sliders to medium. I checked "Allow G-effects". I set turbulance and flew straight out of Estrella and practiced slow flight. Before that I found out that the object of flying slow isn't flying right over stall speed to hone your skills at keeping the wings level, it's just so you can slow down in case something is in front of you. The built-in lesson is more about throttle and trim, and I really need to take it rather than just read about it and try for myself - that doesn't work.

More in other reply.

Best,

Sean

I don't recommend you do any 'tuning' with Flight Tuning if you want to do aerobatics tuning. You need to go into air file (use AirEd) and change the aileron, roll and pitch 'FACTOR' values in Section 1101 (Flight Dynamics)... BE SURE TO MAKE A BACKUP OF AIR FILE BEFORE YOU DO ANY EDITS. Cheap insurance.

 

Chuck B

Napamule

I will need to wait until I have a machine with FS9 connected to the web, but I'll try what you said. I found AirEd here:

http://simviation.com/simviation/?ID=200&page=2&mark=5895

Best,

Sean

Ok, I get it. You WANT mushy at close to stall. Well for that you need to increase the pitch, roll and yaw MOI's in cfg. Double what is there. Then increase the 'parasite drag' and 'induced drag' in (Flight Tuning) section of cfg. Default is 1.0. Make both parasite =1.9 and induced =1.6 for starters. Go try it. Good on you for changing realism to Medium.

Chuck B

Napamule

The heck with it...put it EASY..or put it HARD...your choice. DON'T put it MEDIUM. OK? OK!

Chuck B

Napamule

PS: Now you want the EASY and the HARD realism explanation I suppose. Cheesh.

It dates back to FS2002, as explained in the Dreamfleet forum here:

https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/showthread.php?142017-REALISM-SLIDER-TO-50/page2

As napamule says, "the heck with it" - you're free to set the realism sliders wherever you like them, that's what they're there for.

Control sensitivity shouldn't always be at max in any sim. My joystick's rudder axis is twice as sensitive as the elevator & aileron axes, so I've reduced the rudder axis sensitivity in-sim (FS2004 btw, not FSX/P3D!) to compensate. That's what the sensitivity sliders are there for.

At Hovercontrol they recommend setting the realism sliders to Easy for flying helicopters. Any flightsim rotorhead will tell you the same. You can't generalise with settings, they are adjustable for good reason.

As you say, increasing joystick sensitivity does mean that the joystick axis response time is reduced. It's not the same as control sensitivity, which refers to the FDE's control effectiveness, to use the correct terminology. Adjusting one will not affect the other.

And what about the 'NULL'. Like: 'I don't give a 'NULL' about it'. For 'NULL': 'Put it where you want it and then 'adjust' it'... (hehe).

Chuck B

Napamule

At Hovercontrol they recommend setting the realism sliders to Easy for flying helicopters. Any flightsim rotorhead will tell you the same. You can't generalise with settings, they are adjustable for good reason.

As you say, increasing joystick sensitivity does mean that the joystick axis response time is reduced. It's not the same as control sensitivity, which refers to the FDE's control effectiveness, to use the correct terminology. Adjusting one will not affect the other.

I have trouble shooting approaches because my Sidewinder has a dead zone in the middle. It gives me trouble not being able to control my roll. However the "Force Feedback" one doesn't have this problem, so things are nicer with it. On the other hand, maybe I have the only sidewinder made that has that problem.

I should try the helicopter again on 'Easy' and with the good joystick - maybe I can do good take-offs that way.

Best,

Sean

...

There are many add-ons which require the realism slider to be at max to have the FDE work as intended by the designer.....

That would only be valid if your controller is identical to the designer's. The controller sensitivity adjustments are there because all controllers are different; especially when you consider some people use the keyboard, some use a joystick, some use a yoke/pedal combination.

Quite a few simmers have bought high-quality add-ons and used them with keyboard, xbox controller, you name it - you'd be surprised!

The controller sensitivity in flightsim doesn't affect the aircraft's control surface effectiveness in any way - ALL flightsim aircraft are in fact fly-by-wire in it's purest form:

Controller sensitivity merely adjusts any imbalance between one axis and another. These things are made in Taiwan and are not perfect - even in the most expensive kit you can still get a potentiometer which 'chatters' in neutral and needs a bigger null zone on that axis than the rest to cover that up - before it sends it's signal to the flight computer, or in this case, flight sim...

...where the signal for that axis is processed by the aircraft's .cfg and .air files and translated into a control surface deflection and relative force. Control surface deflection and force (effectiveness) are set in the aircraft.cfg and .air files for each aircraft in the sim itself, so the amount of deflection and effectiveness of that control surface is independent from your joystick sensitivity settings.

In the .cfg and .air files you can also adjust a control surface's deflection independently from it's relative effectiveness - ailerons which only deflect 10 degrees are just as effective as ailerons which deflect 25 degrees, until their effectiveness is also reduced by the same ratio.

1. The term fly-by-wire isn't quite correct in this case. FBW means that a computer interprets the input from the pilot and after processing it it sends the necessary resulting commands to the flight controls.

 

All flightsim aircraft can be described as being fly-by-wire, because they only exist within a flight simulation on a computer.

 

Here are my joystick sensitivity settings. If I were to set the sensitivities to Max as you insist, the slightest touch would send my aircraft into a vertical climb, dive or spin immediately. I like to make some positive movement with my joystick before the aircraft responds:

 

 

Here are my joystick sensitivity settings. If I were to set the sensitivities to Max as you insist, the slightest touch would send my aircraft into a vertical climb, dive or spin immediately. I like to make some positive movement with my joystick before the aircraft responds:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]196833[/ATTACH]

 

Excuse me for not figuring this out, but how do I make my Sidewinder more or less sensitive? I've looked and not found, or didn't realize I was looking at what I was looking for, but I'd like to be able to adjust what the joystick does and by how much.

 

Thanks,

Sean

I have a Sidewinder 2 and my sensitivities are all 100% and 0% null and it works smooth and wouldn't have it any other way. I did not, by the way, install any software. Windows 7 64 bit recognized it and installed it automatically. That's the way to start. Later you might use FSUIPC, but that's it. No software that comes with a stick is worth messing with.

Chuck B

Napamule

Edit: By the way, the sensitivity sliders are '0' on the left edge and '100' on the right edge. Same for null zone.

The above example considerable slows down flight control deflection and the very large null zone indicates a rather worn Joystick.

Suggest to move all the sensitivity sliders fully to the right and reduce the null zones as much as possible for a realistic Joystick/flight controls response/behaviour.

Please note that these sliders actually control the speed of the flightcontrols movement.

Your settings are realistic when flying aerobatics in a fast jet. The OP isn't asking about aerobatics in fast jets. There aren't any default fast jets in FS2004 - A Century of Flight which is why, when you click the reset defaults button on the sensitivities screen, you'll see the recommended settings for the default flight in the C172. If you prefer your C172 to respond like a Star Wars X-Wing fighter, that's fine, it doesn't mean anyone else's settings are faulty.

I don't agree at all. Realistic control response only happens with the sensitivity sliders fully to the right.

Perhaps you can explain Microsoft's default sensitivity settings to us? How does a worn joystick become even more sensitive requiring a larger null-zone? How do you enhance control 'feel' for non-force feedback controllers?