Getting my rear kicked controlling the Aircraft

Hello

I am having a really hard time using my xbox controller to play any brand of flight sim.

Its either too twitchy like my dog as responsive as a 15 year old when asked to go outside.

Is there a general baseline I can work off of regarding game controllers?

Can someone point me in the right direction where I can print a keyboard mapping overlay to I can remember what each function does?

I can navigate a billion dollar warship across Oceans, but configuring flight sims have brought me to my knees.

When you pilot that warship across the ocean you have the proper tools and controls to do that. You need the same to control your flightsim. An Xbox controller is meant for games, it's not really suitable for what you're trying to do.

 

Airplanes fly with a stick or yoke. You don't necessarily need to spend a lot of money, something like this:

 

https://www.fspilotshop.com/logitech-extreme-pro-joystick-p-5613.html

 

is perfectly fine. Later when you have more experience you might want to get a yoke, pedals or other more sophisticated controls that match the type of flying you want to do.

Ah great point :)

Off to the store then. Thx for the advice

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..Can someone point me in the right direction where I can print a keyboard mapping overlay to I can remember what each function does?..

Whoa! Remember, flight simming can be as easy or as hard as you want it to be. I play FSX and just jump in the cockpit, slam open the throttle and I'm away waggling the joystick and making a few key presses which I've easily memorized..:)

I've been using a Logitech Dual Action gamepad for FS for about 6 months, and it seems to work pretty well; I'm using it due to a lack of Desk space!

Nels & Larry (lnuss) are right, though; a Joystick or Yoke is the best to use for FS...

I don't use a Keyboard overlay, but Mapped the majority of the Keystrokes to the 'F' buttons, and tagged each of them with a printed ID that's taped above the Key.

One other thing, regardless of the Controller... get really familiar with the Elevator Trim; it's your Best Friend. Map the Elevator Trim Assignments to the Up/Down Arrow keys, and the Rudder Trim to your L/R Arrow keys. You won't use Rudder Trim as much, but you'll use the Elevator Trim all of the time...

Alan :pilot:

I've been using a Logitech Dual Action gamepad for FS for about 6 months, and it seems to work pretty well; I'm using it due to a lack of Desk space!

 

Nels & Larry (lnuss) are right, though; a Joystick or Yoke is the best to use for FS...

 

I don't use a Keyboard overlay, but Mapped the majority of the Keystrokes to the 'F' buttons, and tagged each of them with a printed ID that's taped above the Key.

 

One other thing, regardless of the Controller... get really familiar with the Elevator Trim; it's your Best Friend. Map the Elevator Trim Assignments to the Up/Down Arrow keys, and the Rudder Trim to your L/R Arrow keys. You won't use Rudder Trim as much, but you'll use the Elevator Trim all of the time...

 

Alan :pilot:

Thank you, that helped a lot. I also found that using auto pilot works well while getting the mechanics down.

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Trim is not for control up/down. Its for control of your speed.

Get a joystick so you learn the right things.

Trim is not for control up/down. Its for control of your speed.

Elevator trim is used to "trim" out the joystick/yoke input so that in a climb/cruise/descent you do not have to apply joystck pressure to maintain the desired aircraft pitch.

fly the cessna172

climb to a random altitude, and set the autopilot to hold altitude.

reduce power, and see the elevator trim move up as speed decreases.

increase power, and see the opposite.

Or do it manually.

switch off the autopilot, and try flying a lower speed in level flight.

With the elevator in neutral position. (so not by pulling on the stick.)

I'll bet you you need to use elevator trim to fly lower speed maintaining altitude.

------

You climb by briefly pulling up the elevator, and adding thrust.

To adjust speed you use trim.

For pschlute, whio has joystick/yoke.

Fly level, fixed speed.

now slow down.

What do you do?

reduce thrust?

Will the plane slow down if you just reduce thrust and do nothing else? WIll it stay at altitude?

No.

It descends, and while doing so, it maintains the exact same speed.

So what then?

Do you reduce thrust, "hold up" the plane with the elevator, and then "trim out the pressure on the yoke"?

Or

do you reduce thrust and hold up the plane by clicking the elevator trim tab up a few notches.

It's the same thing you know.

Because after you have "trimmed out the pressure" and "returned the yoke to zero"----what has happened to your elevator trim??

right, you moved that up.

It's trim that governs the speed. Not thrust.

-----------------------------

Just for kicks, set the trim in your plane all the way up.

Now try flying if with the yoke only!

See if you can hold any altitude, or speed. I doubt it.

Flying a plane that is out of trim is next to impossible.

Power

The application of power will increase the aircraft speed with a secondary effect of climb. A reduction in power will reduce speed with a secondary effect of descent.

(see: http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/flight_training/fxd_wing/control.htm)

For Trim, see..

http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/flight_training/fxd_wing/trim.htm

Trimming is changing the stability of an aircraft in such a way that when no control inputs are given, the aircraft maintains its attitude and speed. It allows the pilot to release the control input without the aircraft deviating from the intended path. In general the aircraft is trimmed for straight and level flight, but it can also be trimmed for descent or even for turns.

Been using xbox controller for years..just a matter of getting used to it and adjusting the null zones..but recently received a Logitech joystick for Father's day and now would never go back...the problem with xbox controllers is with the short sticks, small inputs equal alot of movement and the rudder control with triggers dont give you full range of rudder.

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It's trim that governs the speed. Not thrust.

Sure you can get that effect, but it's not the trim itself that does it -- it's the movement of the elevator, cause by the trim change, that does it.

Elevator is, generally speaking, the "speed control." Trim is, as was mentioned above, on the aircraft only to allow the pilot a way to relieve him of having to hold elevator pressure (some early aircraft didn't have a trim control). While you can, indeed, make trim changes to change the speed in the sim, if you look carefully at the elevator in flight (not sitting still on the ground), you'll see the elevator move in reaction to the trim. In a real aircraft, the trim change will (with hands off) move the elevator AND will change the fore/aft position of the stick/yoke.

If you were able to (in a real aircraft) hold the stick/yoke while trimming to keep it from moving, a change in trim setting would actually make a tiny change in attitude in the opposite direction from normal operation (with a trim tab -- not other means of trim, such as bungee or moving the horizontal stab). Or in other words, changing the trim moves the elevator which then changes the aircraft attitude which then changes speed and (with no power adjustment) altitude.

Trim, in a real aircraft, is provided only to relieve control pressure. This is true whether you're talking about elevator, rudder, or aileron trim. All three do the same thing. Add control pressure to effect the change, then trim the pressure off. If the needed change is large (such as dumping flaps), you may trim several times as the aircraft responds and you make large changes in control pressure.

In the sim, do as you like, but it's a sorry way to control an aircraft. And please don't tell people the wrong way to do things.

lnuss,

Sure you use the elevator to make the intermediate moves and direct control. (The stick that is).

But eventually you end up with the plane trimmed to fly at lower speed.

And yes, elevator trim of course moves the elevator too. But it is two different controls. Trim or yoke. And you use them at different times.

You shouldn't use the trim to climb. That's what thrust is for.

I think telling someone to fly the plane using trim exclusively is a bad idea.

When I didn't know the first thing about planes and fsx, and flew with keboard only, I used trim and 'elevator' (arrow keys) and often ended up trying to land with the plane completely out of trim.

Needles to say most of the time landing was near impossible, speed way too high, or too low.

Trim as relief of pressure on the controls, doesn't explain a thing about what trim actually does. It makes it sound as if it works like power steering.

Trim has an aerodynamic effect, and governs speed. And I think it's important to understand that. And I think it important to try and bring that across to people.

We're not too far apart. We use trim for the same purpose. We just look at it from a different perspective.

lnuss,

Sure you use the elevator to make the intermediate moves and direct control. (The stick that is).

 

But eventually you end up with the plane trimmed to fly at lower speed.

 

And yes, elevator trim of course moves the elevator too. But it is two different controls. Trim or yoke. And you use them at different times.

You shouldn't use the trim to climb. That's what thrust is for.

 

I think telling someone to fly the plane using trim exclusively is a bad idea.

When I didn't know the first thing about planes and fsx, and flew with keboard only, I used trim and 'elevator' (arrow keys) and often ended up trying to land with the plane completely out of trim.

Needles to say most of the time landing was near impossible, speed way too high, or too low.

 

Trim as relief of pressure on the controls, doesn't explain a thing about what trim actually does. It makes it sound as if it works like power steering.

Trim has an aerodynamic effect, and governs speed. And I think it's important to understand that. And I think it important to try and bring that across to people.

 

We're not too far apart. We use trim for the same purpose. We just look at it from a different perspective.

All interesting discussion: But wholly irrelevant for the purposes of the sim:

THERE, trim also controls the vertical element (elevator); horizontal or yaw element (rudder) and bank or leaning (aileron).

While both learned genteelmen are correct in their aspirations to elicudiate and inform, neither are correct about how the sim uses trim. The reason is simple: `All` controllers (yes, there are exceptions) have a form of self-centring (often spring-loaded) that wants to return-to-centre regardless of the trim setting and/or elevator position. Having trim in the sim operate as a supplementary control surface allows it to have a vague approximation of the function of the real thing. Real aircraft have a force applied to the controls as fuinction of speed, power, torque and a number of other factors.

And I am correct because Airshoves are not `real` aircraft like Borings or Spitfires... or even Cessna's.:pilot:

I am sorry il88pp but you are just adding to confusion by your latest post.

If I pull the yoke back I get climb and a reduced speed, so is my elevator there to control speed ?

If I add flap I will get a reduced speed so is my flap control there to control speed?

If I lower the gear I get a reduced speed......... see where this is leading ?

Control surfaces like elevator/rudder/aileron or power settings have more than one effect on the aircraft's path through the air.

Trim (whether a "tab" type trim on a cessna, or a moveable tailplane) is designed to relieve pressure on the control column or to assist the autopilot to maintain the required pitch required for it's commanded phase of flight.

It is not designed to control speed, although it's use will have an effect on speed.

Sailordude,

You might want to check this Video out:

It helped me quite a bit with this crucial skill. In fact, you might want to watch his entire FS Series; he explains things very simply, and it's easy to follow along.

Don't worry... you'll get the hang of it!

Alan :pilot:

pschute,

when flying the Cessna, and holding altitude with the autopilot,

and you reduce thrust,

does the plane:

automatically add flaps, lower the gear, or pull on the yoke???

no, it adds elevator trim.

So does every other plane.

When you want to fly at lower speed, do you reduce thrust, and keep pulling your joystick back all the way to the destination????

Or do you add some trim?

I think you are the one that is trying to confuse the situation.

pschute,

 

when flying the Cessna, and holding altitude with the autopilot,

and you reduce thrust,

does the plane:

automatically add flaps, lower the gear, or pull on the yoke???

no, it adds elevator trim.

 

So does every other plane.

 

 

 

I suggest you re-read my post and what others have posted.

I know what the purpose of trim is, and it is not to control speed as you seem to believe.

I suggest you re-read my post and what others have posted.

 

I know what the purpose of trim is, and it is not to control speed as you seem to believe.

Thank you everyone for your knowledge and advice. If anyone ever needs assistance in navigating a billion dollar warship across the ocean, let me know :p

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