NDB/ADF Quiz

[mikeymcc]

This is a continuation of the "ADF/Transponder" thread ...

Assume the following facts:

1- You are the cockpit crew of some aircraft. This
aircraft does not have an FMC.

2 - Al Qaeda gunmen have broken into the cockpit. While
you survived the ensuing gun battle, much equipment has
been shot away including all compasses whether magnetic
or gyroscopic.

3 - Furthermore, for purposes of electronic navigation you are reduced to a single ADF instrument. You have no VOR receivers either, and you have no voice communication, nor can you usefully see outside because a) it is night and b) you
are somewhere west of Crazy Woman, Wyoming, USA, so that there
is in fact nothing useful FOR you to see.

4 - Having decided to land, you pick an airport which is known
to be 24 miles due north of the KXXX NDB which just happens
to be within range of your ADF receiver.

5 - Formulating a plan, you decide to fly direct to KXXX and
then take up an outbound bearing of 360, planning to fly at
180 knots for approximately (repeat approximately) three
minutes which should place you in the immediate vicinity
of your newly-intended destination airport. You're not
sure what you will do once you arrive over the airport
but as it happens that issue is not part of this quiz.

Here are the questions for the first part of the quiz:

QA1 - Are you or are you not able to fly "direct KXXX"?

QA2 - Are you are are you not then able, with CERTAINTY,
to take up an outbound bearing of 360?

QA3 - Why did you give the answers that you gave?

Now here's the second part of the quiz ...

Assume you are a trained scientist who regulary conducts experiments using the Scientific Method. You know from past observations that under normal conditions your bearing TO an NDB can be inferred by correlating the ADF needle reading with the magnetic heading of the aircraft. You have also observed that your bearing FROM the NDB must, under normal conditions, be the reciprocal of your bearing TO the NDB. From this you conclude that you can use the tail of the ADF needle to determine your bearing FROM the NDB. Excited by this discovery, you publish it.

But conditions are not normal. In fact, conditions are precisely
as described for the first part of the quiz. But now, being a scientist, you decide that instead of trying somehow to land you will instead conduct a series of passes at KXXX. Each time, as you arrive over KXXX, you make a an instantaneous right turn of NNN degrees, where NNN is a random integer in the range 001 to 360. Each time you then write down the observed reading of the tail of the ADF needle.

QB1 - Is there a pattern to the resulting list of observed NNN/Tail-Of-Needle readings?

QB2 - Is the following statement true or false ...

"You can get BEARING FROM information from a VOR but you cannot get BEARING FROM information from an NDB, only bearing TO, relative to the aircraft's heading, because it's only a homing beacon, nothing more."

QB3 - Do you or do you not publish a retraction regarding your
"tail of the ADF needle give bearing FROM" discovery?

Mike McCarthy

[flyinggriffin]

QA1 Yes. Just follow the needle.

QA2. Yes, assuming you have good data on your heading before losing all the compasses and DGs. You would also need pretty good data on winds aloft. Basically what you would be doing is dead reckoning. I would need someone else to do the math and time the turns.

[mikeymcc]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-02 AT 02:15PM (EST)[/font][p][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-02 AT 02:14 PM (EST)[/font]

flyinggriffin,

You earn extra credit for your insightful answer to QA2 which, frankly, hadn't occurred to me. I hereby award you a second crewmember to carry out the calculations. (Who knows? He might even have a Boy Scout compass in his pocket.)

... But you didn't COMPLETE the quiz ... And the second crewmember has bailed out, taking the Boy Scout compass with him, before you get to QB1.

Mike McCarthy

[tailboom]

Why did ya let guys with guns get on the plane??
...Hizzoner P. Wigley Esq. P.C.
:-lol http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/Use...c5238f33e0.jpg :-lol
Meet 'Infidelicus Extraordinarus'...aka...Hizzoner

[mikeymcc]

I repeat, I'm learning ...

The instant I saw the "QC1 ..." headline I just KNEW it was going to be you. Thanks for the chuckle.

Mike McCarthy

[TomDoc]

Mike,

What airline is it that we're flying with?......

'Cos if it's Aeroflot..... I'd let my son fly it.
If it's BA, I'd let my girlfriend fly.
And if it's AA..... well, we probably gonna crash anyway!

:-lol

(Apologies if this posted twice! Forgot to switch off firewall!!)

[mikeymcc]

TomDoc,

I could be wrong but I believe it's Air Qaedana (giggle).

Mike McCarthy

[REALandsimCaravanPilot]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-02 AT 06:46PM (EST)[/font][p]I'm an FO on a Falcon 20, I never get in the plane without my $129. handheld 12 channel Garmin GPS 12.
This ADF quiz is getting ridiculous.
THE PLANE HAS 2 RMI'S, IF ONE FAILS THE OTHER WON'T UNLESS IT'S A COMPLETE ELECTRICAL FAILURE, IF THEY BOTH FAIL YOU GET THE ALKALINE POWERED $129. GPS OUT.

http://www.garmin.com/products/gps12/

[mikeymcc]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-02 AT 08:13PM (EST)[/font][p][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-02 AT 08:12 PM (EST)[/font]

Dear an FO on a Falcon 20,

(Remember "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure", when Bill says to Billy The Kid, "Glad to meet you, Mister The Kid"?)

This thread is a continuation of the indicated earlier thread.

Were you to read that earlier thread you would understand the reason for the quiz, which was to size the cojones of a single person who was doing battle with me in that other thread.

The thread you are reading now was started before Larry N's post to that other thread. Had I seen Larry N's post I would in fact not have started THIS thread, though I don't exactly REGRET creating this thread, humor being the spice of life.

As to the ridiculousness of this thread, the moderators were, are, and will continue to be, free to delete either of the threads in question.

It is hard to tell how long you've been following current events on FlightSim but if you ARE current then you will understand the following paraphrase ...

"Don't you LIKE my jokes? Why not? And remember, I have MORE!!!"

Mike (things are not always as they appear to be) McCarthy

[Sunny9850]

QA1 YES
QA2 Not with only one NDB. Yes if there is a second NDB station available so that a triangulation is possible.
QA3 Because I had a minute to spare for someone who apparently needs to be right for the sake of being right.

QB1 Out of minutes :-)
QB2 Yes if the NDB is the only available instrument.
QB3 I hope he is more secure in his knowledge than you apparently are and doesn't waste his time like I just did.

IMHO he made a perfectly understandable point in the original post, and I am pretty sure answered the question of the original poster in the other post completely enough to let that person get a little more out of the sim. If he then decided to learn the absolute intricacies of Navigation all the better.

You on the other hand seem to be interrested in one thing and one thing only, and that seems to be "right". Helpful or not.
Makes me wonder if there is any relation to the other McCarthy.

Happy Landings
Suuny :-cool