Dreamwings Embraer 170 FDE

I have been searching for a very long time for a fix to this a/c, and thought I'd have another try now - the one problem I (and presumably everyone else?) have with it is the way it 'settles' into cruise altitude.. by slowly dipping up and down by as much as 2000ft/min around the designated setting. I have Googled the problem umpteen times over the past few years and tried all sorts of tweaks to the values in the aircraft.cfg elevator trim and so on) - all in vain: maybe it's the air file that needs changes??

 

If anyone knows of a way to stabilise cruise flight (climb and descend are fine), it'd be great to be able to fix this. Maybe no fix is known for this (or surely I'd have come across it by now??)

 

Thanks.

Have you tried changing the air file for the default 737, that sometimes works, don't forget to edit the aircraft.cfg though before you try it, worth a try.

Hmm, I read that somewhere too - it's worth a try I guess. Kind of suggests there must be a tweak one could apply to the Dreamwings's air file

 

I'll report back when I've tested it out. Thanks.

Did a quick test - slewed up to 30000', set instruments and then climbed to 32000'. With the old air file, the switchback ride started as the a/c levelled off. With the b737 air file, it's nice and stable! Thanks for the suggestion, I doubt I'd have tried it ( a bit counter-intuitive?) had you not given me the heads up on this.

Great! I have had AI aircraft take off fly straight on and get a call from ATC to change heading but no, they just fly straight on and ignore, so I change the air file and most times it works.

Glad you got it sorted by the way.

I flew this years ago and can't recall ever having any issues. There might've been updated FDE's. Dreamwings was Eric Cantu if I remember correctly??? I know there were updated FDE's for some of his aircraft which were not always easy to find.

If you know where there's a downloadable update, it'd be interesting to compare the settings in the two air files to see what changes were made. But I haven't ever been able to find any such update...

Ok, going to give links from AVSIM for a version 3 because checking my drive that is where the file I have is from so it will be the identical version I have and likely used. There was also a virtual cabin version but I don't think I ever used it but link is below as well. Let me know if v3 fixes the problem?

 

Edit: I just downloaded the file, checked contents and size and everything matches up to what I have on my drive so it should be the identical version I used in the past.

 

Embraer V3

http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=48142

 

Virtual Cabin version

http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=36507

Hi - thanks for the links. I can only use the model I already have (if I try a different one, parts of the aircrafts' liveries get messed up) but that doesn't matter. The replacement air file seems fine though - I see it has already been renamed 'Boeing 737-400' when you edit it, in fact it is pretty much the same in most details as the B737 default air file. It's a few years earlier than the air file I had installed (2003 v. 2006) - I don't know where my old one came from...

 

Anyway, I'll try a flight tomorrow. I only tested again with a quick slew to 30000' and level flight was stable with the A/P. so I am sure all will be OK on a 'real' flight...

 

Thanks again :)

If you're still looking for a solution within the aircraft.cfg, I suggest changing the pitch MOI (moment of inertia). It is within [weight_and_balance]. Try both an increase and a decrease. Don't be afraid of very large numbers for this parameter. As always, back up prior values before changing.

 

Nadlzfw

Hi - thanks for the links. I can only use the model I already have (if I try a different one, parts of the aircrafts' liveries get messed up)

 

When I checked my drive I found I had no less than 37 liveries for this aircraft! All worked perfectly on the V3. You may wish to give it a try as I'm sure I collected liveries from older Embraer models too but everything worked on the V3 model without any issues.

 

Good to hear the other problem appears resolved!

Now I am flying, the new air file (v3) doesn't actually help - in a 'real' flight (rather than just slewing) I am getting the same up and down motion at cruise altitude (odd, as you say you have no problem) so I am going to try the B737 air file again. I haven't tried even that in a 'proper' flight yet I think, other than by slewing to 30000' and setting the A/P, so I am hoping that it is going to work OK!

Oh &^%!@#! - the B737 air file doesn't work either when you actually start from an airport and follow through all procedures, rather than slew up. (I wonder why that should be!). The E170 is still tipping back and forward to maintain cruise altitude. I suppose I can start adjusting the MOI, as suggested.

 

I could also I suppose4, just as a test, as I shall not change the panel, see if things go any better with a default FS9 panel rather than the one I use right now (Bill Grabowski's very nice bit of work).

Well, I have spent some hours now over the past few days on this - nothing I have done has improved things, so, as I also use the AI Aaadvark Emb-170 as a flyable plane for a number of liveries (not available elsewhere), I have downloaded the liveries I had installed in the Dreamwings a/c and have done a few test flights with that AI plane instead. It is rock steady at cruise altitude, which is a very acceptable trade-off for the fact that the doors don't open. I have removed the Dreamwings E170 from my FS9 setup now.... I'll probably never know what the problem was, but in the end, life's too short to go on and on with this (as I said, I have been trying on and off for a few years to fix things!).

 

Thanks for the suggestions anyway.

Does the AI Aardvark EMB fly Ok, as a flyable aircraft? If so use the CFG from that or just use the weight and balance section and see it that works.

I know the V3 didn't have this issue or I would've deleted it. Have you considered trying it unmodified straight from the download? I added the Ken Mitchell panel, sounds and all the liveries I tried on it worked perfectly.

Have you tried setting an accelerated Time Rate (eg, X8 or X16)? Does that change the nature of the problem? Better, worse, or the same? The answer to that question might help determine in which direction the problem lies.

 

Also, does the altitude make any difference? You said you've been cruising at 30,000ft. What happens at say 40,000ft?

 

I ask because I have had at least one jet fighter that had this problem, and it turned out to be an issue with an aircraft.cfg parameter. Now to try to remember which fighter and which parameter :( .

I have actually removed the Dreamwings Emb170 from my system now - though I do have it backed up and could reinstate it to do some tests. I think the pitch problem would get worse with accelerated mode - I also noticed that the higher I flew, the wider the curve - at 32000' it was about 1400' plus and minus, at 20000' about 900' plus and minus. Although it meant constant little shifts with the joystick, the plane could be stabilised with the A/P and ALT HOLD off. As soon as you engage automatic altitude hold, the pitching starts.

 

The AI aircraft flies OK as far as I recall - I have a number of liveries which I have flown in the past without any problem as far as I recall. I did a few tests yesterday (without slewing the plane to altitude) and it seemed very stable, but I'll fly some flights today and see how it goes. If all is fine, I don't think (apart from the curiosity factor perhaps) it's worth the time spent tinkering with the Dreamwings a/c any more.. I know the doors don't open with the AI plane, but I can live with that...

 

As others seem to have no issues, I wouldn't be surprised if it is the panel + aircraft combination that is causing the problem, but as I say, I'd far rather change the plane than the panel.

DREADFUL DISCOVERY!!! OK folks, I seem to have lead everyone up the garden path, I am sorry! As far as I was aware, it was only the Dreamwings a/c that had this problem, but now I have flown the AI Aardvark version, I find that that also pitches up and down, in the same way. :mad: I have no recollection of other Embraers doing the same thing, but it seems that the problem is not with the aircraft itself....

 

So I will need to have another look at this after all. I suppose it may be the panel itself - it was made for the ERJ-145, perhaps it doesn't like the ERJ-170 for some reason. No idea at this stage how I can do anything about that - depends whether the panel uses gau files or cab files. If the latter I can possibly tweak the xml files, but if it's a gau file (I haven't checked yet), then there's nothing I can do. I really do not want to use a different panel, this one is otherwise great.

 

I'll draw a deep breath and try the DW a/c with a different panel, but it seems the issue only happens if you get to cruise altitude with no slewing and no x2 or x4 acceleration of the sim (which latter I did use in my tests up to now to speed up the troubleshooting a bit). May take a while to be able to come to any conclusions...

OK I may have missed the part where you said you were flying it with a different panel, so did it fly OK with the original, if so then that is the cause?

Others have said they have the aircraft and it flies perfect but maybe they are using the original panel I don't know.

Hello

I have used the Dreamwings 170 for many years and with no problems.

The panel of choice for me is a modified version of Ken Mitchell's.

I note you are using the Grabowski panel .

I seem to remember that particular offering was not actually for the 170,but for 130, 140, 145s etc

That panel was quite a complex offering (a good looker to)

But! I think it was actually developed for fs2002.

Whether this has anything to do with with your problems operating the Dreamwings I don't know ,but thought I would chip in anyway ( I rarely chip these days)but have been following this thread with interest.

If I thought it would help ,and I wasn't breaking any rules, and it was possible to do,i would be quite happy to send you any cfgs ,air files etc that I use with this aircraft.

The panel I use is available here at FScom .If your interested I will post back with its file name.

PS may take out the 170 tonight ,just to observe it at cruise, but iam sure I have never noticed anything untoward in its flight characteristics.

 

Ah ha my keyboard has started to work again ,so I will add a cheers.

 

Cheers Andy

 

 

PPS

 

This is the panel I have used for many years.

It's by Ivan Kostic.

 

With you in a minute ,this god ##£&ed tablet is made of dung and plastic and is about as much use.

(Actually dung and plastic are both extremely useful commodities)

But not when your bloody tablet is made of them..... ugh!

Right calming down................

 

This hopefully is the link

https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/fslib.php?do=copyright&fid=119518

You know how computers are malevolent beings with a mind of their own, hell bent on sending their owners crazy. Mine is no exception. After my last post, I tried the AI plane again, with my usual panel, and this time, the aircraft reached cruise altitude and stayed stable. Three times I did this, and all was well. So I have no idea what the real problem is - I didn't knowingly do anything different from the previous test, when the AI Emb-170 wobbled about just like the Dreamwings version.

 

I think I'd better just leave things as they are, fly the AI Aardvark planes with the Grabowski panel (I never got round to trying an FS9 default panel, for the reasons above). Yes, as I said, I do know the panel is for ERJ145 really (and made for fs2002) and maybe that is part of the problem (?), but it is still the best panel for the a/c I have found - lots of nice, working detail. I'll take a look at the one you mention (thanks Andy) but I am rather attached to the Grabowski one, wobble or not!

 

Maybe sometimes my Emb170 will be stable at cruise altitude, sometimes it won't. If I can see why this happens, I'll certainly let you know...

Well flying an AI model might also be the cause, many times you will see written ai aircraft don't always fly well as flyables and also some flyables don't always fly ok as ai.

 

Do you know how to edit the aircraft.cfg if so you first make a backup copy.

Then get the aircraft.cfg from a flyable model and replace the the weight, contact points and lights sections from the ai model and also you may need the air file from the flyable as well, again worth a try.

If it doesn't work you still have your backup you saved first and just replace, I've done this lots of times when tweaking aircraft.

A few final (?) comments on this, as I am not going to be able to solve the issue, I am sure. It's probably a problem with the Grabowski panel, but that panel is by far the best freeware offering I have found and as one of the most important things for me when I fly is to have a satisfying panel, with realistically functioning gauges and switches, I shall keep this one, whatever.

 

If I do not engage the ALT button to maintain altitude, I have found that I can control the level of the aircraft quite well with an occasional click on the up or down trim - there is almost none of the pitching up and down. (I use the ALT only for climb and descent and disengage it when I get near an altitude I wish to hold, level off with the joystick and then, as I say, trim slightly as necessary.. ).

 

The AI Aardvark Emb-170 is amazing to fly BTW - it handles better than quite a few 'flyable' aircraft I have! For one thing, it it quite powerful in climb, but doesn't race away when you taxi and so needing frequent braking (a fault of many user a/c in my FS9 setup). And, as I say, it is really very nicely responsive to hand flying and to tiny adjustments to trim... Also there are so many liveries available, liveries which you can't get with any other model. Quite a classy little aircraft all in all! Whoever made the FDE is a bit of a genius!

 

So I suppose I'll stick with things as they are now, just remembering not to use the ALT for holding altitude. Thanks for the comments and advice.