Undocking 2D Panels Causes FPS Drop

Hi All,

When in full-screen (VC) and undock a 2D panel (GPS, for example) my FPS drops to about 1/2 of what I had. This occurs with all aircraft - payware, freeware, stock.

If I just show the panel (shift + 3), like the GPS, without undocking, the FPS is unchanged. If I undock a panel (FPS drops to half) and then "redock" it, the FPS goes back up to what I had before (full FPS). :confused:

I recently changed my vid card from an AMD 6950 2GB to an Nvidia 960 2GB (also using Nvidia Inspector FSX Profile) - everything else has remained the same. I never had that FPS drop with the AMD vid card. I'd prefer to keep the Nvidia card due to the better visual quality and overall performance, not just in FSX, but all my other games.

I'm running Win 8.1 Pro, FSX (boxed - Deluxe with Acceleration installed).

I'm hoping that it's a quick and easy fix, or something so obvious that I missed it. :o

Thanks for all your help!

E-Buzz :pilot:

Hi All,

 

When in full-screen (VC) and undock a 2D panel (GPS, for example) my FPS drops to about 1/2 of what I had. This occurs with all aircraft - payware, freeware, stock.

 

If I just show the panel (shift + 3), like the GPS, without undocking, the FPS is unchanged. If I undock a panel (FPS drops to half) and then "redock" it, the FPS goes back up to what I had before (full FPS). :confused:

 

I recently changed my vid card from an AMD 6950 2GB to an Nvidia 960 2GB (also using Nvidia Inspector FSX Profile) - everything else has remained the same. I never had that FPS drop with the AMD vid card. I'd prefer to keep the Nvidia card due to the better visual quality and overall performance, not just in FSX, but all my other games.

 

I'm running Win 8.1 Pro, FSX (boxed - Deluxe with Acceleration installed).

 

I'm hoping that it's a quick and easy fix, or something so obvious that I missed it. :o

 

Thanks for all your help!

 

E-Buzz :pilot:

I to have this problem never did find a solution as of yet probably cause i havent really tried looking for one this only happens with FSX. Im able to unlock. In FS9 with no issues whatsover.... Perhaps someone can find a.solution.

Is it anything like resolution differences between the monitors? Any difference if you are in the 2D cockpit and then undock the GPS?

Hi mrzippy,

Thanks for the reply and the suggestions!

I've checked the resolutions of all the monitors (and in the fsx.cfg) and they are all the same (1920 x 1080). I've also tried disabling the other two smaller monitors and only flying with the single 50 incher and the FPS drop remains.

I'll check the 2D cockpit when I'm back home (I've never flown from the 2D before) and see if there's any difference when undocking the GPS.

Hi Garciamk4,

Sorry to hear you have the same problem. Are you running an Nvidia vid card also?

Just curious if this might be Nvidia related (GPU or drivers?) - I haven't heard of this occurring before and I haven't experienced this until I switched from my previous AMD vid card.

I too hope an answer is found...

E-Buzz :pilot:

E-Buzz

I just flew a couple of flights out of KSDF with the default Lear 45. In each flight I made sure to undock not only the GPS but also the entire panel as well. Whether in 2d, my normal operation, or 3d vfirtual cockpit I noticed no change of FPS when I move the GPS or the the panel to a side screen.

I always use three screens, typically the center one having the 2d panel and the left and right screen showing the left and right wing view. I typically move the GPS to the right wing view and move the radio panel to the left wing view. No FPS problems with either on any video card I've used..

But for this experiment I went virtual cockpit view and put the virtual cockpit on the left screen and the GPS on the right screen. Though it was hard to "fly" in that configuration I had no issues with frame rates or any other issue. Then I followed up with a 2d panel and had the same results.

As to the question about Nvidia. I've used several different video cards from various manufacturers. The test described above was done using a EVGA 960, a Nvidea card. I have had no, zero, FPS issues with a Nvidea card compared to others I've used. If your software is up to date I can't think the brand of card had anything to do with your problem!

Whatever you find is the issue, PLEASE ADVISE! We all learn from others' experiences!

Hi Rupert,

Thanks for the blow-by-blow with your experiences with undocking - very helpful to know that it might not be my new vid card.

I should be able to return home tomorrow and play a bit with FSX (I think one of things I'm going to try is having FSX reload a fresh fsx.cfg - after saving my current one) and computer settings - I will report back any progress, especially if I find a solution.

E-Buzz :pilot:

Hi Rupert,

 

Thanks for the blow-by-blow with your experiences with undocking - very helpful to know that it might not be my new vid card.

 

I should be able to return home tomorrow and play a bit with FSX (I think one of things I'm going to try is having FSX reload a fresh fsx.cfg - after saving my current one) and computer settings - I will report back any progress, especially if I find a solution.

 

E-Buzz :pilot:

Sounds like a plan! A fresh config file write just might do it.;)

Don't forget, the resolutions shouldn't necessarily be all the same. Each monitor should be set to it's "native resolution", not some arbitrary, chosen resolution. That's been a rule-of-thumb for MSFS since it came about. "Native Resolution", of course, is the resolution the monitor recommends it be set to. If it comes out of the the box ant 1400X1080, just for example, that is what the settings in the sim should be.

Good luck!

I don't have this problem by the way, but I also use just one monitor, so I may be entirely off base here.

Pat☺

When in full-screen (VC) and undock a 2D panel

There is no 'undocking' in full-screen mode. What exactly are you doing with your windows? Are you really in full-screen mode? I have heard of some people using a 'pseudo full-screen' fiddle, so perhaps this is what you are doing. (And perhaps is the cause of your problem.)

Hi PhantomTweak,

Thanks for pointing out the resolutions thingy - I too am only running one screen right now.

Hi Mark Hurst,

Great point! I am using the window borderless gaming program when I fly in FSX - I forgot to mention that detail. I use it in DX10 in order to see the "tool tips," as they don't display when in true full-screen mode (in DX10).

I'll not run that next time I'm home and see what happens - thanks for the tip!

I'm still scratching my head that this is now occurring with the Nvidia vid card and not with the AMD vid card.

Here is what I've observed so far:

I've deleted the fsx.cfg file and let FSX build a new one, then added the requisite tweaks (HIGHMEM, affinity mask).

I'm running Nvidia Inspector (MS Flight Simulator 10 profile) and use the 1/2 refresh rate setting, and limit the FPS (via Inspector) to 59.7 (the refresh rate of the TV is 60), and have it set to "unlimited" in FSX.

When I am flying in the MilViz Phantom F4J in the mountains by Orbx KJAC/Global, I frequently hit close to 60 FPS without the GPS undocked. As soon as I undock the GPS or ACM window, the FPS drops to 29.7 - 30. When I redock or close the windows, the FPS goes back to 59 - 60.

I went into Nvidia Inspector and turned the 1/2 refresh rate off and tried the same scenario. I found that the FPS still does drop slightly, maybe a few FPS, but not down to 30.

Maybe this is the reason for the drop - is Inspector trying to work on having the undocked window go to 1/2 the refresh rate and now also affecting the main screen FPS? I don't know...

I'll update with more info.

Thanks all for the tips!

E-Buzz :pilot:

Hi Garciamk4,

 

Sorry to hear you have the same problem. Are you running an Nvidia vid card also?

Just curious if this might be Nvidia related (GPU or drivers?) - I haven't heard of this occurring before and I haven't experienced this until I switched from my previous AMD vid card.

 

I too hope an answer is found...

 

E-Buzz :pilot:

Yes GTX970 to be exact although i cant recall if i had the same issue when i had the AMD Installed before the upgrade

Hello,

In addition to using my big screen TV for the main display, I run (3) 7" USB monitors for dragging PFD, MFD, and EICAS for a "glass" cockpit. As Mark said, I can only get it to work in windowed mode for the main display. One thing important is to not let any image overlap on to another display otherwise the FPS will suffer.

Also here is a link from Microsoft for Multi displays...

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/240981

As Mark said, I can only get it to work in windowed mode for the main display

Well no, I didn't say that. Multiple screens work fine with 2D panels in full-screen mode.

There is no 'undocking' in full-screen mode...

Well no, I didn't say that. Multiple screens work fine with 2D panels in full-screen mode.

??????????

OK, now I'm really confused! You say you are used to seeing 60+ FPS and now you're down from that. Why is that an issue? Can your vision tell the difference in 60FPS to 40FPS without looking at a gauge? You do realize that gauge may not actually be accurate anyway don't you??

As I understand it, typically commercially produced movies you pay money to see at your local cinema-plex are run at 36FPS+/-. Does watching movies at 36FPS cause a problem for your enjoyment? Would it make the show better or worse with a gauge on the corner of the screen tracking the FPS?

My suggestion is you turn off that frame rate gauge, which itself puts an additional load on your true limiting factor with FSX, your CPU. If your eyes don't detect a difference one way or another without a gauge, what you're doing is already good!

If the speedometer on your car only registers up to 140mph and your buddy owns one that registers up to 160mph, does that matter? Possibly if you live in parts of Europe and can drive the unlimited speed sections of the Autobahn or similar roads. For those of us who don't routinely travel at over 120mph in our auto, what the speedometer's top end is limited to doesn't really matter.

This whole thread reminds me of the frequent questions people ask as to why their flight doesn't look as good as flights they see online. Can you say "Photo-shop?" Don't spend your life and huge amounts of income chasing rainbows! Just because someone says "I get 100FPS" or someone posts a video which has many hours in the lab making everything look perfect rather than flying the sim doesn't make what you're doing of less value! ;);)

Hi PhantomTweak,

 

Thanks for pointing out the resolutions thingy - I too am only running one screen right now.

 

Hi Mark Hurst,

 

Great point! I am using the window borderless gaming program when I fly in FSX - I forgot to mention that detail. I use it in DX10 in order to see the "tool tips," as they don't display when in true full-screen mode (in DX10).

I'll not run that next time I'm home and see what happens - thanks for the tip!

 

I'm still scratching my head that this is now occurring with the Nvidia vid card and not with the AMD vid card.

 

 

Here is what I've observed so far:

 

I've deleted the fsx.cfg file and let FSX build a new one, then added the requisite tweaks (HIGHMEM, affinity mask).

 

I'm running Nvidia Inspector (MS Flight Simulator 10 profile) and use the 1/2 refresh rate setting, and limit the FPS (via Inspector) to 59.7 (the refresh rate of the TV is 60), and have it set to "unlimited" in FSX.

When I am flying in the MilViz Phantom F4J in the mountains by Orbx KJAC/Global, I frequently hit close to 60 FPS without the GPS undocked. As soon as I undock the GPS or ACM window, the FPS drops to 29.7 - 30. When I redock or close the windows, the FPS goes back to 59 - 60.

 

I went into Nvidia Inspector and turned the 1/2 refresh rate off and tried the same scenario. I found that the FPS still does drop slightly, maybe a few FPS, but not down to 30.

 

Maybe this is the reason for the drop - is Inspector trying to work on having the undocked window go to 1/2 the refresh rate and now also affecting the main screen FPS? I don't know...

 

I'll update with more info.

 

Thanks all for the tips!

 

E-Buzz :pilot:

If you are running in Pseudo full screen you will always get an FPS drop when undocking. I use two screens FPS only drops when I drag the window to the other screen...not a big deal as I usually set everything up before I take off...as mentioned.. quit wasting your time.

??????????

I don't know how to interpret that. Perhaps you think those two statements are contradictory? In full-screen mode there is no concept of 'docking' and hence you will not find 'undock' or 'dock' on the menu. If you want a window on another monitor you just drag it there.

Hi Rupert,

Hee hee! Yeah, I understand where you're coming from and can see that my post makes it sound like I'm whining about my FPS :o

It may sound like, "Whah! I'm only getting 30 FPS instead of 60! Whah!" ;)

One of my "can't fly without" addons are TrackIR and EZCA. When using them, I find that the higher the framerate, the smoother the view when looking around the VC. I can see a marked difference when the FPS drops - head panning/movement lags slightly, so for me it seems that the ideal FPS is anything closer to 40.

To be honest, if I were to keep my head completely still in the VC, 25-30 FPS does look fine and smooth. But, the second I try moving my head and looking around, the smoothness, well, isn't so smooth. Another nice effect that EZCA provides is dynamic head movement - it causes your view to shift slightly depending on the conditions you're flying in. For example, when you're taking off and speeding down the runway and hear the bumps, your view shakes to mimic the bumping feel. Another example is when you're flying in rough weather and getting tossed around, your view moves in response. It really adds that little bit of immersion.

That little bit of immersion becomes a lot less when the FPS can't quite keep up. :(

I usually don't fly with the FPS counter showing. But, since I did notice that looking around the VC was not smooth and a bit laggy after I undocked the GPS, I hit Shift+Z and saw the FPS was 29-30. I closed the GPS window and saw the FPS go up to 59-ish and the VC panning smoothness was back. Just to make sure I wasn't seeing things, I opened the GPS window again without undocking, and the FPS (59-ish) and panning smoothness remained unaffected. Undocked the GPS window, and FPS went back to 29-30 and the lag and lack of smoothness came back.

So, yeah, unfortunately I do notice the FPS drop...

Again, this never occurred with the AMD card. But, I won't go back to the AMD card because the image quality with the Nvidia card is noticeably much better.

So, until I can figure out this (admittedly minor in the grand scheme of things) problem, I'll just fly without undocking any 2D panels (I only fly from the VC anyway, but it's nice to be able to pull up a 2D panel when I'd like).

Hi Double J,

Yes, I see what you mean - the problem I'm wrestling with is when I was using the AMD card, I experienced no FPS drop and I was using the exact same software (save the Nvidia drivers and Inspector), even the Windowed Borderless Gaming program... :confused:

Thanks again all for your comments and help! If I find a real solution, I will post it.

E-Buzz :pilot:

The more windows you have open, the lower the FPS - how much depends on a whole bunch of variables.

DJ