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Digital Rights Management again


Wing_Z

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Just a heads-up for those running older systems:

SimMarket has implemented a new DRM system which opens a browser window during the install, to get an authorisation code.

My FS2004 box runs on WIN XP SP3 using Chrome.

The browser window will not open and so I cannot install the LOWS scenery I bought.

 

The helpdesk has been responsive, but want me to install another browser.

I tried to download Firefox, but the install repeatedly failed (Chrome defending itself?)

 

Long and short: I don't really want to reconfigure my ancient computer, just to accommodate their revised DRM, and I have asked for a refund.

There are thankfully other places to shop online.

 

I appreciate my entire system is by now "unsupported" but was surprised that it became "unusable".

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Just to close off - this from SimMarket:

There is no work around that allows to use an outdated Windows version, which is not supported by Microsoft anymore. no secure connections can be established anylonger under Windows XP. please stay away from any products that require an online activation unless you have upgrade to Vista at least.

 

product removed and store credit issed which can be used in a future purchase.

 

best regards

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... which can be used in a future purchase....

 

Lol. Of course if you cannot activate what you currently have, what use is credit for a future purchase.

 

I had something similar with Origin, except relating to 400meg of datamining software piggy-backed onto a game. Told them this was a dealbreaker, I wanted no part of it. Their solution is to keep offering me different games. They just don't get it.

 

FWIW, my two "secondary" computers both run XP Pro; I think it is the most stable, most user friendly, least intrusive, and smoothest running OS Micro$oft ever released. Everything since has been increasingly bogged down with overly paranoid security, datamining, cutesy smartphone "features", and fewer options to configure anything.

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FWIW, this system is not implemented for each and every addon on SimMarket. It is the developers choice if he wants to use it, or if he just sells his downloads as simple zip files.

 

Note the "REGISTRATION KEY" information in the product description, it will tell you if online registration is required or if any other method is used.

 

Btw, the feeling in your stomach is not so warm either when you realize that your addon, that took you more that 500 hours to develop, has just been uploaded to pirate bay.

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... It is the developers choice if he wants to use it, or if he just sells his downloads a zip files.

 

A decision which obviously can alienate potential customers.

 

The same argument I pose to game developers who choose to only release their games via Steam.

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A decision which obviously can alienate potential customers.

 

The same argument I pose to game developers who choose to only release their games via Steam.

 

If delivery methods have to be considered unsafe, why create addons at all? Contrary to popular belief, very very few addon developers can make a living off this. And I can tell you, that my own motivation took a serious hit when I first saw my products as pirateware.

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There's an old saying, "Locks only keep out honest people".

 

Twenty-five years ago we installed DOS games from floppies. And on starting them were presented with a question, you typed in an answer found in the manual. In every case within a couple of months of the game's release you could download a hacked .exe (you still got the question but could just hit "enter" and the game would start).

 

Then we got games on CD, with the hated CD-check. And within a couple of months of any game's release you could download a No-CD patch.

 

Along came Starfarce, which was hailed as too complex to be cracked. Well, it took about a year but No-Starfarce patches appeared for those games.

 

Now we have Steam and EA/Origin and UbiSoft with their intrusive DRM methods, and hacked versions of those games abound.

 

Now this is no endorsement of piracy, but obviously none of those "copy protection"/"DRM" methods have accomplished anything. I daresay each has been circumvented in less time than they took to develop. So all they have accomplished is increasing the cost of games, irritating valid purchasers of those games, and giving hackers exercise.

 

Retail stores have always had an issue with shoplifting, and have instituted various measures to control it. They could easily stop nearly all shoplifting, but the systems involved would prove so invasive, intrusive, and annoying that they would alienate valid customers in the process; so they accept a certain amount of loss as part of doing business. Game developers have yet to realize this. (And they continue to put forth the fallacious argument that everyone who downloads a hacked game would have otherwise purchased it.)

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If delivery methods have to be considered unsafe....

 

"Unsafe"? No. "Intrusive", yes. "Invasive", yes. "Exclusionary", yes - what if someone doesn't want internet at home, or only has dialup (negating a 6gig download); they cannot go to a neighbor or a library, download to a datastick, take that home and install it; nor, in many cases, are you given an option for a disc version of a game.

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That's what I say about Steam

 

It's only a matter of time before Steam is maybe taken down, user accounts stolen etc.

I'm looking forward to the day personally! Maybe it will then help reshape the gaming industry again to something better than the way it is right now.

Mark Daniels
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Steam accounts have already been stolen. Often through users being tricked into handing over their passwords, or using weak passwords.

 

For those criticizing Steam and other forms of DRM, what would you propose in their place?

 

DRM sucks, but I have yet to see a viable alternative, and not having any DRM simply isn't an option. One of the reasons Steam and Microsoft's product activation have done reasonably well is that they balance security for the developer with convenience for the user. At least a few of the alternatives prior to Steam actually did disable CD/DVD drives, or otherwise mess with a user's machine. Steam isn't perfect, but it is far better. While developers would love to make a 100% secure DRM system, they know it isn't possible. Instead they have gone for systems that discourage honest buyers from pirating their games, or delaying the availability on pirate sites (many people will have spent their money and moved on after a few months after the release date), and accept that there will always be pirates out there. Basically the equivalent of what stores do to discourage shoplifting.

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I like to think that developers have rights too. And one of those is to choose the method of delivery. Selecting a single shop to sell an addon already limits the potential customer base, so DRM is just another choice one has to make - balance the benefit against potentially limiting sales even further. Not that it matters much, most "independent" addon developers consider themselves lucky if they sell a couple of hundred licenses. Not per week. In total. Even without DRM.

 

The alternative is not to bother with creating complex software at all. It is not like developers' lives depend on doing this. But even the most enthusiastic folks who initially create freeware sometimes eventually come to realize that their time and talent are the most precious items that they have to give - and nothing is wrong with hoping for a little compesation. But on their own terms, obviously.

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Software will always be able to be hacked. It is based on 1's and 0's. This is called machine code and is the basic form of ALL software which in itself will always be accessible.

 

In an ideal world, people would simply respect the work, time and effort developers put into making these things. But we lost these basic ethics right from the start. Just because it is easy to replicate software does not make it right. There is no justification whatsoever.

 

I especially like the argument "pirates wouldn't have bought it anyway". You don't pay for it, you don't get to have it, simple as that. If you get caught, you will go to jail (in my country for up to 5 years).

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...

 

DRM sucks, but I have yet to see a viable alternative, ...

 

Download an .iso which can be burned to disc (so when/if you want to reinstall it is fifteen minutes, not another 3-4 hour download). On installation the installer makes a one time "phone home" to verify your copy and link the install to your computer ID. You could reinstall as often as you want to that computer, but not another; if you buy a new system, contact the vendor to reset for a new ID.

 

... convenience for the user. ... or otherwise mess with a user's machine.

 

Mandatory installation of 400meg of unwanted and unnecessary "management software" is inconvenient and messes with my system. And it is certainly inconvenient, and intrusive, to be saddled with a program that must "phone home" every time it is started. (EA/Origin)

 

Being forced to become part of a community in order to buy a game is inconvenient. Again, mandatory installation of datamining/phone home software is inconvenient, intrusive, and invasive. And when said software has carte blanche to add/remove/move/modify files, it certainly messes with my system. (Steam) (And if, as we are told, you can play these games in offline mode ... and if, as we are told, you can disable the datamining ... and if, as we are told, you can turn off the updating and phone home processes ... then we can effectively disable this useless software altogether. So why force its installation at all?)

 

 

systems that discourage honest buyers from pirating their games, ....

 

This statement contradicts itself. Honest buyers would not be pirating games.

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Download an .iso which can be burned to disc (so when/if you want to reinstall it is fifteen minutes, not another 3-4 hour download). On installation the installer makes a one time "phone home" to verify your copy and link the install to your computer ID. You could reinstall as often as you want to that computer, but not another; if you buy a new system, contact the vendor to reset for a new ID.

 

 

 

Mandatory installation of 400meg of unwanted and unnecessary "management software" is inconvenient and messes with my system. And it is certainly inconvenient, and intrusive, to be saddled with a program that must "phone home" every time it is started. (EA/Origin)

 

Being forced to become part of a community in order to buy a game is inconvenient. Again, mandatory installation of datamining/phone home software is inconvenient, intrusive, and invasive. And when said software has carte blanche to add/remove/move/modify files, it certainly messes with my system. (Steam) (And if, as we are told, you can play these games in offline mode ... and if, as we are told, you can disable the datamining ... and if, as we are told, you can turn off the updating and phone home processes ... then we can effectively disable this useless software altogether. So why force its installation at all?)

 

 

 

 

This statement contradicts itself. Honest buyers would not be pirating games.

 

You would be amazed at what "honest buyers" will do. I used to program police dispatch software that was regularly pirated by the various departments that didn't feel like buying licenses.

 

DJ

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I like to think that developers have rights too. And one of those is to choose the method of delivery. ....

 

Absolutely. And the customer has the right to decide if that method of delivery is unacceptable.

 

Years ago I wrote to Bethesda, "I have looked forward to the release of Skyrim. I will gladly give you fifty dollars for a disc version I can install and play as I did Morrowind and Oblivion. I will not give fifty cents for a Steam version."

 

Fast forward a few years, I wrote to Runic Games, "I wish to commend your decision to release Torchlight II in a normal version on your website as well as the Steam version. Had the latter been my only option I would not have purchased."

 

Steam has become the Borg of the computer gaming world - "Resistance is futile. We will assimilate you".

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Lol. Of course if you cannot activate what you currently have, what use is credit for a future purchase.
There's quite a selection of stuff still available that has no activation code requirement.

I just bought one of those products, with the credit given.

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There's quite a selection of stuff still available that has no activation code requirement.

I just bought one of those products, with the credit given.

 

That is good to hear. I stand corrected.

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You would be amazed at what "honest buyers" will do. I used to program police dispatch software that was regularly pirated by the various departments that didn't feel like buying licenses.

 

DJ

 

Lol, if they pirated, they weren't honest people; and if they were honest people, they wouldn't pirate. But it's a curious commentary that this occurred in a police dept. (Just like the most often shoplifted book in the world is the Bible.)

 

FWIW, my last professional job was project engineer, designing upgrades for cable distribution equipment (as boring as it sounds). As my neighbors discovered this it was amazing how many of these fine, upstanding, "god-fearin'", pillars of the community stopped by for a chat ...and steered the conversation towards "can you fix my cable box so I can get pay channels?".

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Lol, if they pirated, they weren't honest people; and if they were honest people, they wouldn't pirate. But it's a curious commentary that this occurred in a police dept. (Just like the most often shoplifted book in the world is the Bible.)

 

FWIW, my last professional job was project engineer, designing upgrades for cable distribution equipment (as boring as it sounds). As my neighbors discovered this it was amazing how many of these fine, upstanding, "god-fearin'", pillars of the community stopped by for a chat ...and steered the conversation towards "can you fix my cable box so I can get pay channels?".

 

My point being that there are very few, if any, truly 'honest' people. As a consequence, devs are forced to take complicated and expensive approaches towards protecting their work.

 

DJ

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On that we agree; in all my years I doubt I've known a half dozen people I would classify as completely honest across the board. I think most people are honest within their "sphere of influence" - family, friends, neighborhood, community - the the farther from that you go, the more "wiggle-room" you have. Not saying if you go to another town you would steal a car or rob a bank, but you would probably take advantage of a situation with a stranger that you wouldn't do with a neighbor.

 

But for "copy protection"/"DRM" (I wonder what the next terminology will be), again consider the analogy of a retail store. They install security cameras and monitors and place sensor pylons at the exits; this is not intrusive for customers and possibly cuts losses by 75%. Now they would like to knock another 20% from that so they install airport type security at the exits - put all packages on the conveyor, empty your pockets ...anything triggers an alarm you get a wand scan, trigger that and go to a separate room for a strip search. This may cut that 20% from losses, but with two factors to consider: the law of diminishing returns - spend $500k/year to prevent a $40k/year loss?; and how many customers would say, "I liked shopping at this store but that's too much! I'm taking my business elsewhere".

 

The computer game industry is at that point. Everyone has their own tolerance; some people think the Steam/Origin/Ubi model is fine, others are already saying, "this is too much". The current systems have already been hacked, so what is next? How intrusive, how draconian, will the next system be before another group of gamers say, "enough!" And that system will be hacked also. It's a cold war between the hackers and the developers, with the valid "honest" gamers being the victims. Eventually enough gamers will have rebelled to affect the bottom line of Steam, et. al., but until that happens we are stuck in this vicious cycle. (If, during its first couple of years, enough people had stood up to Steam and said, "this is unacceptable", we would not be having this discussion today.)

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I do understand what you are saying. If enough gamers rebel, then DRM and product will be reduced and prices will go up to cover the losses - precisely what happens in brick and mortar stores. Devs will find other things to do since we don't need the grief. As senior software guy, I was making over $100 an hour when I retired; and I could make it anywhere I wanted to work. The add-on business is puny by comparison. Who needs the hassle?

 

DJ

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