vid carts with "Ti" prefix

I have been reading some posts over various sim forums, the subject is too complicated to understand (98% terminology and 2% the point), all I was able to understand from the 2% is:

 

1. "Ti" cards are prefered.

 

2. 980 Ti and 1080 are about the same in power terms (I think...)

 

3. people are eagerly waiting for 1080 Ti (not sure why, if most say FSX/P3D doesn't care what card it is)

 

4. - this is the most interesting one! - some say that it doesn't make difference to FSX but does make a difference for P3D, but I didn't get why it is so, please explain.

 

and 5. it was told 1080 Ti will help a lot with Vram, whatever the heck it means. Did they mean the VAS it would help with????

 

If 4 and 5 are confirmed, I guess I will have to join the crowd and go for 1080 Ti, the cost will be somewhat of a pain but... it's a hobby, gotta do it. But if useless... you let me know please. I have GTX 970, it's over 2 years now and I am ok with retiring it for something better.

4. - this is the most interesting one! - some say that it doesn't make difference to FSX but does make a difference for P3D, but I didn't get why it is so, please explain.

 

This one is pretty simple: Microsoft developed FSX over 10 years ago, and while the video card sees some use, FSX is mostly CPU bound.

 

Lockheed Martin, on the other hand, developed P3D much more recently, and they designed it to make very heavy use of the processor in the video card itself, thus the video card contributes a great deal to the performance. So there is MUCH more processing power in P3D, and the better the card (generally speaking) the better the performance.

 

Of course the CPU, hard disks, etc. still have their effects...

Coming from a 970 - you will not get your money's worth going to a 1080 or a 1080TI. If you want a modest improvement without breaking the bank, look at the 1070. Almost as fast as the 1080 and about $300 less. If you don't care about $$$ then the new Nvidia Titan X with Pascal GPU would be the best you can buy.

 

 

Vic

Thanks guys, now I need more details, what will I get with the 1070 card? What form(s) the improvement will take? fps rate, VAS management? What is it am I going to see with various choices, going up from 970? Budget isn't a primary matter but we don't want to go with what we don't need. Right now I need to know what "this" card will do for me, what "that" card will do for me, and what ""that"" card will do for me, with P3D and XPlane in mind.

Since I don't have experience with, let alone benchmarks for, the other cards, I can only say that a higher end card gives better performance. To answer your question fully would take a lab with each of the cards and several different computers (or at least one identical to yours) -- none of us have that.

 

So a higher end card gets better performance, and anything more you'll need to try yourself.

ok, this is warmer. But, according to you and Vic, any card up from 970 will improve performance, however, according to Vic, there is no difference between 1070, 1080 and 1080 ti in P3D, correct?

To get one thing out of the way: the GPU in itself has no impact whatsoever on VAS. These are completely separate items.

 

A GPU is a computer in it's own right with it's own CPUs and memory (the Video RAM). The high end cards have more of everything, so they can do more and faster calculations. This "GPU-computer" offers an instruction set, for applications and graphics frameworks to use. These instruction sets are very sophisticated and complex, so the application developer doesn't have to code every single pixel and line. In Windows, these instructions are incapsulated in DirectX or OpenGL, these are the frameworks that the developer uses to code his graphics.

 

Now consider FSX: it was written using the DirectX 9 instruction set. When time went on, the GPUs offered more powerful features, so DirectX had to evolve. It progressed to Dx10, Dx11 and finally Dx12. All these frameworks and the GPUs maintained compatibility with the old Dx9 instruction set, but FSX cannot use any of the new functionality. So FSX will only run better if the new GPU does the same things faster than the old one.

 

P3D on the other hand was built with Dx11, so it can use every feature of the new instruction sets, and as a consequence, those of the new GPUs. It still can't use Dx12 though, obviously. A side effect of this is, that some of the new functionality already includes operations that FSX had to do by itself - on the CPU. That is why load has shifted a little bit from the CPU to the GPU in P3D.

 

In the current situation, as every new version of P3D and X-Plane incorporate more and more of the now current graphics technologies, you want the most powerful GPU that your wallet can buy. You simply cannot know now, what the next iteration of the simulators will demand from your GPU.

 

X-Plane is a little different, as it doesn't use DirectX but the OpenGL framework (that is why it can run on Linux and Mac OS too). But by and large the same rules apply.

 

So, when looking at benchmarks, you want to specifically check for Dx11 performance and for OpenGL performance. And perfomance translates most of all into FPS, but the relation is not linear, as your CPU is still involved too. (meaning: 25% higher performance does not mean 25% more FPS)

 

Edit: Example from personal experience: I recently replaced my trusted 780ti with a 980ti. For FSX this didn't make a difference, in fact, FSX is running worse than ever (I need to re-tweak it for the new GPU). With P3D the FPS drop in clouds is less pronounced (because the 980ti is faster at handling AA) but it is still there. Unfortunately I changed the CPU as well, so there is no telling of the "how much". All I can say is that it is running P3D really well on highest settings in triple FullHD. And the CPU (5930K) isn't even overclocked.

Ok thank you, now we know we need a new card.

 

Last question to figure out, 980 Ti or 1070? I see similar specs, 980 Ti is older yet more expensive (!), must be one popular card. Let me chose between the two (explane the differences, prospects etc) and I will proceed with the order please.

Well, as you say, the 980ti is the older card. It is expensive simply because it is the premium product with premium hardware. Still, it is cheaper already than a few weeks ago.

 

But: if you plan on using VR in the future, IMHO you should get a "10". The new chipset is supposed to have new features, built specifically for VR.

according to Vic, there is no difference between 1070, 1080 and 1080 ti in P3D, correct?

 

Not what I said - the performance received for what is spent is not worth the $$ when coming from a 970 to a 1080 or 1080 ti. Going from 970 to 1070 is a better use of funds. More performance difference per $$$ spent. The 1080TI or the TitanX will give you the BEST results but at high cost.

ok ordering 1070.

 

still it is not clear from the posts, what would be the advantage of 1080 Ti over 1070.

 

A scenario: the performance with 970 on approach/landing to EGLL in PMDG 777 is 18 fps (+/- 1 or 2 fps), no matter how low or high your P3D settings are, it's 18-20 fps. Similar when climbing out of JFK rwy31 towards Manhattan, a frame better than EGLL.

 

1070 supposedly will give me another 2 fps which is good, 20-23 is already smooth.

But 1080 Ti, will it provide a further 1-1.5 fps on top of what 1070 provides? This is what we need to know. Waiting your reply till the end of the day before ordering.

 

 

ps. mine and your experiences in EGLL may vary but let's not go there, as the subject is: what is the improvement expected with 1070 over 970, and 1080 Ti over 1070.

Expected? That will really depend on how your system is set up. You will notice a bigger difference going from a 970 to a 1070 than you will gig from a 1070 to a 1080ti. There will be a difference but will it be worth $300 more? You'll get smoother operation, faster loading if graphics - *IF* - on YOUR system- this frees up the cpu then you might see an fps increase.

 

This is a VERY BROAD statement but - the fps come from your CPU - the graphics quality and smoothness come from your GPU.

 

*IF* your GPU gets overloaded and steals cycles from your CPU, you will have a graphics related fps drop - if that's the case - then a better GPU will affect your fps.

 

If your looking at going to a 1070, 1080 just to get better frames - save your $$. If you want smoother operation and a POSSIBILTY of some increase ( 1-2) FPS - then go for it.

 

HTH,

 

Vic

ok that clears it for me.

I am smooth enough with the 970 so +$300 for smoothness isn't logical. 1070 it is.

In a couple moths will will have to upgrade to a Kabylake CPU, with that of course, a board and the ram. Stay tuned I will need your assistance )))

 

My previous 2014 build has been assisted via this forum with one guy basically pointing to me every component down to a model number for each device (it's in the hardware forum). This time it will be just a bord+cpu+ram upgrade. Xplane, mostly fluent up to 40fps, sometimes gives me a pain too, with fps rate in some airports as low as 21fps, so gotta keep going with new hardware stuff every 1.5-2 years. Cannonlake is still years from release, don't want to wait.

The basic ones are sold out, I ordered the FTW one whatever the heck it is. It is bigger in size, hopefully will fit. Skeptical because these sell 1:4 compared to basic.

I just upgraded from two 960's in SLI to a single 980Ti (just before the 1080 was released). In P3D, with FSGlobal, Orbx etc and sliders maxed in the PMDG 737, I went from a stuttering 9 fps around YBBN to about 35. En route I get 50-80 fps. That's on a 3440x1440 G-Sync panel.

 

I'm sure you could do better with a 1080, but those 980's are getting cheaper every day.

Sounds good, though I ordered a 1070, not 1080. What fps you get at EGLL by Aerosoft?

Ok I gt it, it helped Xplane by a lot, and added a frame-two to P3D although it will take a complete flight to know for sure.

 

Major issue is the LED light, how do I disable it easily, without downloading that massive program and registering at their site (total nonsense) ? I do not need the led light.