Mystery. Outbound AI Traffic at Victorville (KVCV) refuse to take off. Stumped.

Departing AI traffic at Victorville -KVCV- (the old George AFB in the high desert of California) won't take off. They taxi out to the assigned runway, stop and then time out. Has anyone encountered this problem...or figured out why? I sure can't.

Here's what happens: Victorville has crossing runways; 18/36 and 3/21. Rwy 36 is the active one. ATC tells departing traffic to taxi to RWY 36 via RWY 3 and hold, instead of instructing them to taxi via a connecting and more direct ramp taxiway © which leads right to RWY 36. The AI traffic all dutifully taxi out via Taxiway D and turn on to RWY 3 as ATC instructs and proceed to the hold line. When there they stop and then......never enter RWY 36 and leave. They are all stacked up and one by one...time out and disappear.

I know the workings of AI traffic is complicated and tricky, and I'm no expert in that area. Have tried removing taxiways and even RWY 3/21 entirely in an effort to force ATC to take the traffic directly to RWY 36 via the ramp Taxiway C and let 'em take off...but to no avail. Even when I remove RWY 3/21 entirely, AI TFC just turn and taxi out where the runway once was, across the desert floor. Really looks weird!!

If I call Tower to taxi for departure I get the same message (RWY 36 vis RWY 3 and hold) and line up behind the AI guys, burning expensive JP4 until they all time out and let me move up to RWY 36 for my own takeoff. Helluvaway to run an airport!!!!

Any experts in FS9 AI matters ever encountered this problem? I suspect it must have something to do with the way the airport was created in FS9. Some universal rule must have been violated when the creators made up the airport.

Anybody able/willing to solve this mystery?

JonB :confused:

 

 

Have tried removing taxiways and even RWY 3/21 entirely in an effort to force ATC to take the traffic directly to RWY 36 via the ramp Taxiway C and let 'em take off...but to no avail. Even when I remove RWY 3/21 entirely, AI TFC just turn and taxi out where the runway once was, across the desert floor.

 

 

You have either not edited the afcad correctly or you have a duplicate afcad.

AI a/c will not taxi where there is no runway/taxiway.

If they stand still on rw3 they may be waiting for the hold short point that is meant to temporarily stop an aircraft from entering rw3.

Now they need to exit rw3, and the hold short is stopping that because it is letting traffic through in the wrong direction only.

Hold shorts have an orientation. (forward/reverse, maybe also both ways).

Also, there are hold shorts and ils-hold shorts. Using the wrong type can cause these issues too.

I don't have the precise solution for you, I use only fsx myself. But i often saw such issues when editing airports. It usually takes of a few attempts to get it fixed.

AI will be given the shortest route to the departure end of the runway.

For most of KVCV that would be taxiway Charlie for runway 35.

The only thing that would cause them to not use Charlie and use the runway is a break in Charlie so there is no continuous path.

Even though it may appear in the sim to be continuous, it may not be. You may have overlapping nodes.

ADE fault finder will find overlapping nodes and point them out to you.

The behavior you are seeing should not be caused by duplicate afcads.

As for the Hold Short nodes, the AI and ATC engines in FS ignore the ILS Hold Shorts, they are cosmetic only.

The orientation of the Hold Shorts is also a cosmetic element and only dictates whether the solid or dashed lines are closer to the runway. Orientation has no affect on how a Hold Short works.

Is this afcad something you downloaded or is it a home brew?

If you downloaded it, what is the zip file name and where did you get it?

peace,

the Bean

Hold shorts have an orientation. (forward/reverse, maybe also both ways).

Sounds like my ex.

Now you know ONE reason she IS my ex...:p :rolleyes: :eek:

Sorry, I just HAD to say it.

Pat☺

As stated above, either you are missing a red hold short node at the entrance to the runway, or it is too far away from the runway surface (press H in AFCAD to see the radii; it's in the View menu in ADE).

Note that an overrun (yellow chevrons on the runway) do NOT count as runway surface - you need to run a taxiway along the overrun and get the hold short node close to the real runway.

HI Bean and thanks for the response.

Found the AFCAD in Addon Scenery, under the Cal Classic Core sub-directory. Possibly came as part of the Cal Airports package I downloaded some time ago and just noticed it now, but I don't know if it was actually part of the Cal Classics package. Do assume that Victorville (the old George AFB) is not among the most popular airports with sim players, since I couldn't find any similar complaints in the Forum.

Odd thing is that Taxiway Charlie is continuous and leads past the ramp to the threshold of Runway 35. Why ATC choses to route outbound traffic for RWY 35 onto RWY 3 is a mystery to me. Rwy 3 crosses the active Rwy 35/17 about 600 ft. from the start of RWY 35. Much less direct that way to use RWY 3 as a taxiway.

Still haven't figured it out.

JonB

Hullo Tom:

Was not aware of the proximity requirement for Hold Short lines. Used your "H" key tip & found several that were too far back. Corrected them, including the one on RWY 3 where the AI traffic came to a stop and timed out.

Now they actually make the required stop and then go ahead and take off on RWY 35 just as God and man intended! :)

Taxiway C leads directly to the start of RWY 35. But, try as I may I can't get the AI TFC to take that route. Instead, ATC continues to direct them onto RWY 3, using the runway as a taxiway. Strange! However, they actually do take off now, so I'm grateful for the tip. Guess I'll just have to live with the other thing. Not a major problem, but an irritant!

BTW, this is not the first time you have come to my rescue...so many thanks once again for you help. :D

JonB

PS: By any chance was KVCV part of the California airports package, or just one of the default FS9 airports? Am assuming the answer is a no as scenery is pretty sparse like most of the lesser default airfields. Was just wondering how the AFCAD came to be in the Cal Classics Core sub-directory under Addon Scenery.

Hi,

I don't know where your KVCV airport file in the CalClassic Core folder is coming from. There is a KVCV file in the AI MATS package, but that is located in the CalClassic Traffic MATS/scenery folder. That is an airport file that a friend sent me; I didn't test it.