Just Flight British Airports Question.

I took delivery of 3 disks this morning, got them installed and sent an AI aircraft to one of the new airports from the disk (EGNH Blackpool).

When the aircraft arrived in landed on the runway then taxied across the grass, through a building and then stopped just short of hitting the fuel depot.

Now my question: I already have the original AFCAD for EGNH so do I save it as a BAK file?

I'm thinking this could be the reason the AI went the way it did if not the new scenery isn't right.

 

Anybody had this issue with these airports?

Yep, that will be the problem - a duplicate .bgl file. Save one as either a .bak or .bgl.bak - either solution will stop it being loaded.

I just went in to the Just flight scenery folder, I listed out of the 3 lots I installed 74 BGL's to check, some I know I already have some are new so I have a bit of job on now going through them all, Geez!

I won't delete my old ones I will just rename them in case I need to go back sometime.

Happy hunting.........

 

Another solution may be to make a backup of the original folder and the reinstall the JF scenery into the original folder and let it overwrite any files it suggests or look in the library and download on of the duplicate airport scanners that are available

Hi Brian,

 

I have just gone through the BGL's I backed up 36, what is a bit annoying is I downloaded a lot through time and searching, some were very good, as I come across any of these new ones I don't like I will swap back, at least they are still there.

 

I have another disk in the post so when that comes I will have more to edit lol.

Well after disabling the original AFCAD's I watched the same flight again, same aircraft etc and it did the same after landing, it didn't follow the taxiway at all, went straight ove the grass and through a building.

I have contacted Just Flight by email asing if these airports can handle AI traffic.

I got a couple of replies via email form Just Flight support this morning, the guy there was not able to help but he said "FS2004 is over 10 years old now and there isn't much call for it any more."

I had to put him straight on that one, any way I set a couple of AI flight to the extra airports they provided, these are not ones I already have. The Ai landed OK and taxied to stand no problem, taking the proper taxiway, so I'm thinking the problem now lies with the default AFCAD's and the Just Flight ones, shame really because the scenery is good.

Do you have any 3rd party AI addon installed, such as Traffic 360 or Ultimate Traffic 2 as such products can also cause conflicts. . Or it may be down to a rouge .bgl from another freeware install that has used a 'generic' file name for the .bgl

 

I have never used UT2 but do have T360 and have got in the habit of checking for and backing up duplicate AFCAD files when I install a new scenery. I actually don't use the rename method as I suggested in my earlier post, I prefer to simply delete the file and place it in a dedicated folder that I use as backup location for all of my FS related items.

 

Generally, such products have their own generically updated AFCAD files, usually based on the FS default ones. In most cases they have simply added additional parking spaces to increase the amount of AI at the airport and randomly assign parking codes. Some of these product also randomly add a separate helo spot to add helo AI traffic. These spots are totally independent of the main AFCAD and often have generic/imaginary small runways or unmarked taxipaths that do not fully connect to the main airport. In addition, they normally only assigned a generic parking type with no parking code.

 

All of this can often result in wayward taxying and/or a fixed wing aircraft being directed to park at a helo spot. To compound the issue further, such .bgl files will also have a generic name that may not always be helpful in ID'ing the airport in question. For example, T360 (which is another JF product), uses a mixture of correct ICAOs for the larger airports but uses generic ones for smaller airports, helo spots at bigger airprots and most military airfields.

 

I had a similar problem to you at Birmingham AP (EGBB) - I had already deleted the T360 .bgl, which was named AF2_EGBB.bgl but when I left the runway the initial taxipath followed a proper taxiway and then suddenly changed course over grass to a remote helo pad and then across grass back onto an adjacent taxiway and on to the main ramp to the parking spot. It took me ages to figure out what was the problem and which .bgl was causing it - a T360 helo spot file called AF2_JFGB.bgl. On viewing the .bgl in Airport Designer Editor (ADE) all that it contained was a short runway of 50 ft, two taxipaths to two RAMP_GA_LARGE parking slots with no parking codes and a single start point over a Helo pad. When checked against main airport .bgl file it showed that the start point was on the main runway, the short runway was positioned 40 feet from the main runway and between two two taxiways and the parking slots were positioned on grass near the main runway.

 

With T360, all the airport .bgl files stored in a t360 dedicated folder structure, which does make it easier to find them, but other products may store them in default FS locations.

Well I did a bit of clearing out today, in the past I have had T360, I've had UT and MyTraffic all at different times and yes they do add .BGL,s of their own, some are better than others, when I uninstalled I made sure the BGL,s got taken out too, I have them saved in a folder on an external HD, always handy to keep.

 

I made sure too these new British Airports are at the top of the list in the add-on scenery folder, but like you say some programs name their BGL's at obscure and you have no idea what they are but again I agree if they put theirs in a sub folder it does make it a lot easier.

 

Now I'm on MAIW, I took out all my civil aircraft and saved in a separate folder so not deleted if I ever go back plus all the flight plans too, so for the moment I'm just doing military and the odd government aircraft.

I ran ScanAFCAD for duplicates, it found around a dozen or so, I remaned them but realised after some of the ones I renamed I need but I can't find them in any of the folders, does anyone know where I should look please?

Update:

 

One of the guys on the MAIW forum helped me out, got them all back now thanks to him he saved me a lot of work plus some of those AFCAD,s were hidden away in folder I never thought of looking.

I did say on the other forum about the ScanAFCAD program, why did it say those AFCAD,s were duplicate when they were not, it is a good job I chose to rename them and not delete.

Further Update:

 

After all the trouble this 'Just Flight British Airports' software has caused I decide to unistall it all.

Cost me about £30 for the disks off Ebay, I'll put it down as a loss and experience, so now hopefully I'm back to normal.

Col,

 

Not knowing how you have your addon scenry structure set up, there is a way to safely test the JFBA scenery, and indeed any other new scenery, before adding to your main addon structure.

 

First - WRT the JFBA addon - do a dummy install of the disks to a folder outside of the sim - create a folder before hand and simply point the installer to it. If the installation fails because it can't locate the fs9.exe file place a copy of the .exe in the folder and try again. Be aware that the install may contain effects files as well as .bgls and texture files. Do not activate this folder in FS but do copy any effects files into the FS effect folder if desired.

 

Create a second new folder, again outside of the sim and the folder that you have just installed JFBA to. In this second folder create Scenery and Texture subfolders. Activate this second folder in FS as normal by simply pointing the sim to it. This folder can then be used to test all new scenery before permanently adding it to FS.

 

WRT the JFBA addon - You can then use the activated folder to test for problem AFCADS by simply copying individual airport files into it. By trail and elimination you will be able to find those that work ok and those that need dumping (though you might be able to get them to work after some tweaking in AFCAD V2 or ADE, the EULA probably excludes such activity). Good ones can then be incorporated into your normal scenery setup.

 

The folder can also be used to test other scenery as required.

 

FYI, I have most of my addon scenery, both freeware and payware, installed outside of the sim in a multiple folder set up that allows for installing scenery and traffic files into specific categories based on complexity and/or regions. I have used this method with both FS2004 and FSX with no problems whatsoever.

 

WRT the test folder, mine remains empty when I have no new stuff under test and I have encountered no problems when doing so. However, I have read in a number of guides/threads that such empty folders can cause OOM errors on some setups - a simple solution to this would be to place a dummy .bgl file in the folder or even, as you use MAIW sceneries, one of their basic waypoint files that are included in many of their packages.

Hi Brian, I like the sound of that idea, I will give it a tray, I will have to re-read your post to get it right lol.

Ironic you posted this because some of the scenery and new airports were not bad and I would have liked to keep them but others conflicted with what I already had and as you know it threw up problems.

I already have my Traffic files outside the sim so doing this is probably similar, thanks mate, Ill let you know how I get on.

If you can do it with traffic files you can do it with scenery as its the same principles. In fact, when it comes to scenery I find that it gives you more scope and leeway instead of using the default locations.

OK, I may have done it, I had to move the files around within the 2nd folder because of same names (Scenery).

I selected an airfield that is new to me, not one I already have installed.

Set an AI flight from it, the AC is there but about 6" off the ground.

It was getting stuck taxiing I had to help with the slew function.

So not happy with that airfield that can go.

 

So one thing this must be set low priority won't it because then the original AFCADS/Airfields will still overide this, am I right?

..........Set an AI flight from it, the AC is there but about 6" off the ground..........

 

This is could be a result of an error with the contact points setting in the AI's aircraft.cfg file. Only way to check is to load the same model at another AP....................

 

..........So one thing this must be set low priority won't it because then the original AFCADS/Airfields will still overide this, am I right?...........

 

Officially, a higher priority listing should 'over rule' a lower priority listing. By and large this does seem to be the case but occasionally it seems to 'fail'. As stated in one of my earlier post I have had issues with Traffic 360 .bgls over riding other bgls. In my listing I have T360 below all addon scenery and actually below my entries for the multitude of object libraries I have loaded. As stated in the same post, I now delete any relevant T360 .bgl when I add new scenery.

 

A general rule of thumb that has works for me (I forgot where I first found this but it was back in 2007 when I first got FSX) is this priority listing setup - P1 being the highest:

 

P1 - Detailed Airport scenery stored in their own non default individual folders

P2 - Basic Airports scenery stored in non default folder(s)

P3 - Object Libraries

P4 - Terrain Mesh

P5 - Landclass

P6 - Traffic Files (if like me you have them stored outside of the sim)

P7 - Sim default scenery folders

 

As stated, in my listing I have T360 at a position between P3 and P4 entries.

 

FYI, as I have most of my scenery stored outside of the sim I use this excellent tool to activate and change priority listing. I no longer activate any scenery using the sim scenery page and it can also report any issues found within the scenery.cfg file etc - https://sourceforge.net/projects/fs-sceditor/.

Hi Brian,

The first statement about the aircraft being above the ground, it isn't the contact points as it is OK in other airports.

 

I have got the British Airports outside the sim now as you suggested and have it working... to an extent lol.

I can select one of the airports from the menu and some seem alright but others as already stated are way off, either taxi routes or wrong elevation.

The way they are listed in B-Airports isn't too clear so finding the faulty ones isn't that straight forward.

I had an idea for some of them, instead of deleting them I could use them for TnG's and never takeoff or land there.

Having said that I went to one earlier and the taxyway was like a suspended bridge in mid air, it was terrible, now I think I was on the original taxyway and the B-airport was underneath so that one I will definately try and delete.

Like you stated in another post, 'It wil be trial and error till I get it right'

 

I can't thank you enough though for all you time and help you have given me, I like the idea of the scenery outside the sim, I already have my traffic files outside, it's just getting used to it.

 

I have done 3 disks so far and another couple to do of the B-Airports.

WRT to the 'way off' taxi routes - could it be something to do with the B-Airports being configured to interact with a VFR scenery package - having just taken a look at the product on the JF website the description blurb states 'all of which will blend seamlessly into our VFR Photographic Scenery.'

 

Whilst it may not be relevant to B-Airports, as it doesn't actually stipulate that the VFR product is required, I have, in the past, installed scenery with 'photoreal' backgrounds where the author has not included a 'fully displaying' taxiway but has merely added a very small width taxipath that doesn't show and so, in effect, you are taxying over the photoreal background.

 

WRT the 'suspended' taxiway - this definitely suggests an elevation problem, caused either by the product itself or, if you have any installed, a terrain mesh package.

 

WRT the listing problem - I suggest you try using Airport Design Editor to view details. You can point it to open an .bgl file - if it contains actual 'airport' elements (like runway, taxiway and aprons) it will open it and you will be able to view the properties to help ID which airport it is. If a .bgl does not contain 'airport' elements (buildings and other static objects) ADE will give a warning message and will not load it. It may give you a better understanding on how the airports are constructed and if a single or multiple .bgl are used.

 

You may know this already, but it is worth noting that when a airport scenery is constructed it can be saved either as a single .bgl (which will include everything) or in multiple .bgls (one will contain the 'airport' elements and the others will contain buildings, static objects, etc). There might even be a 'common' .bgl that is required by all of the Airports in the package - it will act like a sort of objects library and will contain references to common objects 'called' by the other .bgls (for example static cars or ramp lights etc).

 

Glad to been of help and if you require any further help just post on this thread or PM me.

Hi Brian,

 

Geez! I'm at the point of getting rid of B-Airports again. I go to Middle Wallop (EGVP) and I have MIAW package installed, all the aircraft, parking and taxyways are about 30 feet above the ground, the buildings are on the ground.

all this has thrown things out of plonk, I've uninstalled Apache and installed it again thinking that might do it but no.

 

I made sure I had deleted the default AFCAD too for EGVP and did a search for any other that might be in there, something terribly wrong with all this.

I'm going to take out the B-airports that are activated in addon scenery and see if that cures it, if so then that is the culprit.

 

Came back after deleting B-Airports, still got the problem, I'm at a loss now.

Well that is weired, I took out the B-Airports and went back in the sim and had the elevation problem.

Went for my evening meal, came back to have another go at all this and everything is OK.

Aircraft on the ground level with the buildings etc.

 

So the cuplprit was the B-airports, so I've had enough of them now that's it, they are going in the bin.

Hi Col,

 

Sorry for the late reply, haven't been around for a couple of days due to family medical emergency.

 

All I can suggest is to check out the web for alternatives, especially this page - http://www.freewarescenery.com/fs2004/uk.html - the link lands you at the UK page but the whole site has a large collection of links to FS2004 scenery if you click back to the home page. Happy hunting...............

 

Also checkout the web to see if the problem has been discussed elsewhere on other forum sites.

Hi Brian,

 

Sorry to hear about the emergency, I hope all is now well.

 

OK update:

 

Well all was going well till I decided to install a US package from MAIW, installed it as normal then when I went to view it I noticed I had no USA scenery.

I tried various things including copying the scenery from the FS disk3 but no joy, after other attempts I did a tandem install of FS and tried what you told me about having the scenery OUTSIDE the sim.

So at the moment I have installed 3 packages from MAIW and they all showed up perfect, I still have my old copy renamed with all my other aircraft so I can add them later.

 

Regards Col.

Hi Col,

 

Thanks, all is well. It was my 76yo mother who was taken ill - five days in hospital and loads of test later, she was released today.

 

WRT to your progress. Maybe the original FS install is 'missing' some other essential files that can only be replaced with a fresh install. Possible solutions here, if you still want to use the B-Airports could be:

 

A. Before installing any more MAIW in the tandem install retry the B-Airports to see if they work. If OK problem resolved. If still not OK delete them. Of course, if the the B-airports are the problem you may have to do yet another re-install of FS if the deletion of the B-airports mess things up. Depending on how you are installing the MAIW, especially if using the installer, you may lose some of the MAIW stuff. For example the installer will put some common generic MAIW files into the \scenery\World\ subfolders - mainly textures.

 

OR

 

B. Do another separate fresh install to solely test the B-Airports. If good, try adding a MAIW package - if still duff remove the total FS install.

 

WRT MAIW installs - visit this site (http://www.owlsnest.eu/) - it has some great info on MAIW and other AI related stuff. A document worth looking at regarding installing MAIW stuff can be found by clicking on the Download option in the top menu bar. There is a PDF document that has good tips - just ignore the FSX references and any instructions about removing files that don't work in FSX.

Where you have AI aircraft floating, try putting a copy of the related airport afcad in your Scenery/World/Scenery file. Should fix it for you. Roy.