CLS Arrow II

I don't know where I've been, but the news that CLS had turned their very nice Arrow II into freeware simply escaped me until yesterday. I've always loved this plane; I don't know why, just have. So I downloaded it. I dutifully read all the information provided and then went for a quick test. Nice plane, easy to fly, and more realistic in the way it handles than most of the freeware planes in my hanger.

 

Second step, go to the Internet and try to locate an Arrow II pilot's manual. What luck, there was one, 117 pages long in PDF format just waiting to be downloaded. Reading the manual uncovers some minor discrepancies in stated performance between CLS and Piper. Because I'm a stickler for being as "real" as possible, I decided to err in favor of Piper. That meant some tinkering to the aircraft.cfg file. I started by adjusting a couple of components to those indicated in a thread on this site, but later determined that the values that the thread was chasing were wrong, so I returned my values to the originals. Next, I tinkered with the "thrust-scaler". After about 30 minutes I had the top speed at 25/25 within one knot, and the recommended cruise at 23/23 within one knot, good enough for government work! The tests were conducted at 1,000' without any wind and at 29.92" pressure, so (unless I'm missing something) IAS should pretty much equal TAS. The problem (and where I now need help, for I'm no editor) is that it accelerates to fast and climbs to fast and to quickly. Is there a way to adjust these elements (with some scaler or another) so that the manual stated climb performance might be achieved?

 

As always, I sincerely appreciate your comments, help, advice, and assistance; and I wish each and everyone a Happy New Year!!!

Hi Klee,

 

Hah - it's a slippery slope on which you now tread... I was in the same boat years ago with the Just Flight Duchess... It was a beautiful plane - great panel - with a bit of a lackluster FDE... I started tweaking it but eventually you have to get into the AIR file to work in flight dynamics... It's a bit of an arcane art to get desired results - it's not easy... I wound up purchasing Air Wrench which helped a bit but still not easy... Every change needs to be checked and rechecked for performance throughout the entire flight envelop... Best of luck...

 

Regards,

Scott

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Good to hear from you, Scott...

 

Well, if the slope is that slippery, is there a way to adjust the WOT and 75% cruise performance figures without affecting T/O performance? Here's the problem. CLS claims a WOT speed of 147TAS and a 75% Cruise of 137 TAS, all well and good, and if the model performed to those specs I'd be fine. But it doesn't, far from it! I'm not interested in flying around in an allegedly fast retractable at Cherokee 140 performance levels. Don't get me wrong, I love the 140, but the Arrow II is supposed to be a giant step beyond and so far it isn't. Any ideas?

Sound like too much HP & maybe the Propellor efficiency curves need change, both in the .air file. Herve Sors AFSD might be of help in defining the parameters, after that is as Scott says....

Good luck

Keith

 

edit, don't forget that the very initial climb value from reading the VSI will always be high, its the constant speed rate of climb that you are aiming for.

K

If you're using the FS9 CLS Arrow, there's an FDE/Panel/Gauges/Textures update in the library here:

 

https://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/fslib.php?searchid=43481309

Tiger, your link doesnt work, but a search produces two updates, which one to use?

KCD, I've had a quick look & it hunts, is very difficult to fly S+L without autopilot & Have you noticed the RPM value? I'm getting 3500 fully fine pitch on an engine rated at 2700! Changing this value in the .cfg doesn't help, so it needs more indepth investigation unless the updates noted by Tiger fix these things.

AFSD shows also a slight excess of HP too (about 215 Shaft HP)

Keith

Tim,

As Keith indicated, your link is a dead end, any other info on the update you mentioned? Yes, it's the FS9 version.

Keith,

Have downloaded AFSD, but there are no instructions. I'm baffeled as to how this might help me, can you advise, please?

I have the AFSD icon on my desktop. I start FS9 (or FSX) & get the aircraft running. I then reduce the picture size to give space on the LHS of the screen. Double click on the AFSD icon & then there is a Start button. After that there is a drop down where you can select various parameters, e.g. Engine parameters will display HP, fuel consumption, RPM as well as Propeller pitch, J, efficiency etc.

You will then need to click back onto your aircraft screen & start the program again by pressing 'P'.

 

Give it a try, it can be quite interesting. You can then easily change values in your aircraft .cfg & reload the aircraft & see what values have been changed. I do find however that if modifying the .air file its usually best to reload FS9 or FSX.

Hope thats helpful

Keith

Gentlemen, my apologies for the dead link. The filename to search for is: piper_arrow_plus_2.zip

Ummmm...

Please forgive me the intrusion, BUT:

Next, I tinkered with the "thrust-scaler".

That is the wrong parameter to tinker to get the plane up to speed, as you may have noticed.

As has been mentioned, the various .air file parameters are the trick. Just changing one thing can have unintended consequences, as you have noticed :D

I know, I am not super helpful. Sorry. If it were a jet, now...

You might want to get into the FSDeveloper forums. They have a specific engine section, I think, but even if not, they are some REALLY smart, experienced guys on this sort of thing, and usually willing to help out. Try tossing your question up in the air over there and see what falls out.

NOT anything at all against all the wonderful folk here, please believe me! There is a LOT of experience and intelligence in these forums too, no question. Just offering a possible alternative source of information. That's all :)

Pat☺

Pat...

Thanks for the suggestion. I will try over there next.

 

Keith...

Wow! That's some program! I want to play with it some more when I have more time, but thank you for putting me on to it.

 

Tim...

Thanks for the proper file, got it and will install it after the winter classic (I'm a Bruins fan, you see). From what I've read, it might just solve the problems.

 

At any rate, thanks for all the suggestions and assistance. I'll be back to let you know if the download suggested by Tiger 1962 did the trick. If it doesn't, I'll let you know and continue to hunt. Again thanks, and Happy New Year!

By way of follow-up. After installing Tim's excellent add-on file, "piper_arrow_plus_2.zip" to the CLS Arrow II, I'm happy to say that the results are outstanding! Tim, you saved me I don't know how many hours of tinkering that would probably have resulted in no improvement whatsoever. When we were discussing how to accomplish the desired result yesterday, I had no idea the Tim I was talking to was the Tim Wright who wrote the suggested panel fix and the accompanying Air file and aircraft.cfg file. I just took the post for granted and decided to try it before I went any further on my own.

 

After I got everything installed properly and I had taken a cool trip around the patch, I was very pleased. Performance levels were up to snuff and the Arrow was acting like an Arrow should. Amazing!

 

The only problem I had with the file was the Xponder. I couldn't figure out how to turn it on; the mouse indicates that the on/off switch works, but it doesn't. It's not an issue, however, ATC seems to see the arrow, Xponder or no Xponder. I'll figure that minor issue out another day.

 

However, I was absolutely blown away by the additions that had been made to improve the realism, A working fuel pump added is one thing, but the Arrow came with a safety feature that was unique, automatic gear. Tim has modeled that into his panel, nice! I've not tried it yet, but I have downloaded the pilots manual that describes the system and how to use it, so it won't be long before I don't have to worry about a vonPeerhoven gear-up belly-flop! Tim, thank you for your work on this very nice payware gone freeware airplane. You have turned a very rough proximity into a very near duplicate, and I appreciate your efforts, thank you again.

 

To everybody who responded to this plea, my sincere thanks. The Arrow works perfectly now, thread closed!

Pardon the intrusion, again...

I am looking to download that ASFD program. I Googled, binged, whatever. All I can get from the link posted eariler is a redirection page in French. I don't speak French well enough to follow it, sadly.

Can anyone give me a different link to a ASFD down load? I googled (etC) ASFD, Herve Sors, whatever I could get my poor little brain to think of. Nothing.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Pat☺

Pardon the intrusion, again...

I am looking to download that ASFD program. I Googled, binged, whatever. All I can get from the link posted eariler is a redirection page in French. I don't speak French well enough to follow it, sadly.

Can anyone give me a different link to a ASFD down load? I googled (etC) ASFD, Herve Sors, whatever I could get my poor little brain to think of. Nothing.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Pat☺

 

Here ya go, Pat! http://www.aero.sors.fr/designer_pilot_utilities.html

While you are there...there are a lot of other very useful programs!

Keith

Klee, thank you for your kind words - you're more than welcome since I had a lot of fun (and learned a whole lot too!) by making that update. The Xponder is 'hidden' behind the ADF panel, just click on the ADF's Collins logo and it will change the ADF into the Xponder (this is a feature of the CLS original panel by Ken Mitchell and Nick Pike, both of whom are legends in my book). Click on the Bendix logo on the Comms panel to reveal the Audio panel as well.

 

Pat, you can find AFSD v4.34 on Herve's website at: http://www.aero.sors.fr/

The website is all in English, and so is AFSD 4.34, there's a portable version there too.

 

Happy New Year to All!

Tim

 

PS: I was beaten to it by Zippy and Keefpee, I must learn to type faster!

Many Many thank you's to everyone who responded!

I am usually better at finding "stuff". I think my usual spelling failures were my main problem.

I am currently puttering about the site, seeing all the goodies :D

Thanks again all!

Great flights and fun times to all!

Tim,

I'm doing a repaint of the Arrow II to get more to my liking. Once that's complete, I'll post a couple of shots in the "Screen Shot" forum. You'll get a favorable mention there as well. Your work brings this nice little GA gem to a level that CLS could not (for whatever reason) achieve. I'm sure there are people who have downloaded this plane, flown it around a bit, and now it sits in the hanger, unused, because it has serious performance issues. When someone makes an effort to improve the work of others, and accomplishes that objective, I think as many people as can be informed should know about it. I intend to do my part! Thanks again.