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AI problem with disappearing big planes


Roger Wensley

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I am making Kenai PAEN. While testing out some ai I watched a DC6 Everts Air taxi off the runway and stop after the hold short. For 5 minutes, and then POOF! gone. A Cessna 172 taxied off, stopped, then talked to Ground and taxied off to park. Runway is 150 feet wide, taxiways are 100 feet wide and there are no disconnects, parking spots are all as large or larger than spots used by the same planes before in other sceneries. A Dash 8-100 (or anything bigger) stops, does not talk to Ground, and then disappears. A King Air or anything smaller (and using the same taxiway exit from the runway) stops, talks to Ground, then goes and parks, including at the same gate that the Dash 8-100 never got to. If I change the time and then look again, all the planes that did not taxi are now sitting happily on their parking spots. All planes, big or small, have no problem taxiing out and taking off.

 

Ideas?

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Could it be the taxiway weight limit?

Tim Wright "The older I get, the better I was..."

Xbox Series X, Asus Prime H510M-K, Intel Core i5-11400F 4.40GHz, 16Gb DDR4 3200, 2TB WD Black NVME SSD, 1TB Samsung SATA SSD

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An interesting question, but they are all set at 500,000 lbs, which as far as I know is what I have always used. I admit to not having compared that with what I used elsewhere, where the planes worked ok, but as I have never ever changed it I presume....... etc etc. If you win the prize I will come back and tell you.
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In the case of the Everts DC6 2 hours. For the Dash 8-100 and the King Air it is the same for both, an hour. Good question though, as was the taxiway maximum weight one above. When they POOF! I can see the taxiways and the parking spots, and there is no conflict with another AI plane and their parking spots are empty, tp preempt another question.
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Could it be a comms issue? Is there a valid despatch frequency available?

Tim Wright "The older I get, the better I was..."

Xbox Series X, Asus Prime H510M-K, Intel Core i5-11400F 4.40GHz, 16Gb DDR4 3200, 2TB WD Black NVME SSD, 1TB Samsung SATA SSD

NVidia RTX3060 Ti 8Gb, Logitech Flight Yoke System, CH Pro Pedals, Acer K272HL 27", Windows 11 Home x64

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In case the large planes are on ifr plans. And small ones happen to be all on vfr plans...

Could there be an IFR hold-short point at the Rw exit / apron entry.?

 

Also suggestion for testing, watch the planes land with opposite wind direction. They will use different exits from the Rw. Maybe that makes it all become clear.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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Having eliminated the AFCAD and AIFP, it can only be the planes themselves - are the ATC ID's and callsigns present and correct in the aircraft.cfg? Do they taxi to gate at default airports?

Tim Wright "The older I get, the better I was..."

Xbox Series X, Asus Prime H510M-K, Intel Core i5-11400F 4.40GHz, 16Gb DDR4 3200, 2TB WD Black NVME SSD, 1TB Samsung SATA SSD

NVidia RTX3060 Ti 8Gb, Logitech Flight Yoke System, CH Pro Pedals, Acer K272HL 27", Windows 11 Home x64

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The DC6 certainly works ok at two other airfields I have made. The Dash 8-100 I think I used it before but with different textures and there wasn't a problem. Plus it is made by The Fruit Stand and their planes do not have problems; they are my first choice for any aircraft, if they make it. The flight numbers for ATC are as specified in the AI file, not in the aircraft cfg; the AI over-rides the cfg. I do not believe it is the planes, it is size-related and that means the airport. I just don't see what or how. I have had maybe three other gremlins while making scenery in FS9, such as a taxiway only showing halfway and the other end looking like it is buried, even though it is there, and then having to make an apron to show up as asphalt under where the taxiway is. No reason.
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Maybe it's the aircraft's parking radius?

They may be too large for the available spots.

Tim Wright "The older I get, the better I was..."

Xbox Series X, Asus Prime H510M-K, Intel Core i5-11400F 4.40GHz, 16Gb DDR4 3200, 2TB WD Black NVME SSD, 1TB Samsung SATA SSD

NVidia RTX3060 Ti 8Gb, Logitech Flight Yoke System, CH Pro Pedals, Acer K272HL 27", Windows 11 Home x64

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No, I covered that in my original post, the parking is the same size as used with the same planes before. In fact for the DC6 it is way above at 30m while the DC6 needs only 21m. The large parking spots are all "allocated", so it is not a case of looking for an empty one that is the right size. The GA is random, but the GA is not a problem. And before someone says "Ha! There you are, that's where the problem is, the parking allocation is messed up!" I regretfully say that I thought of that already, but the King Air goes to one of two allocated parking spaces and doesn't have a problem.
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I would save the work.

Then create a copy, and in that copy remove the hold shorts and see what happens with that one installed.

 

The fact they stop right there does point to an issue with either the hold short, or the taxiway.

 

The hold short is easiest to eliminate as cause.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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I will try that, but I see no obvious way for the size of the aircraft to turn the hold short into either a red light or a green light. Plus without a hold short I expect ALL planes to just stop there, because that's what I remember them doing when I accidentally forgot to put one in. Still, a try for entertainment, why not?
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Ehm, you say they stopped without a hold short too.

In that case I assume removing them now won't solve it.

 

I saw it as a possible cause because I expect the larger planes fly IFR trafficplans, and the smaller planes possibly fly VFR trafficplans.

An IFR hld-short could have a different effect on a large plane because of that.

 

Sorry, out of suggestions.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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Apparently IFR hold shorts are for appearance only, they don't actually do anything. And taxiway segments can only hold one aircraft at a time. If the taxiway is crossing an active runway, the runway has priority and the taxi traffic will timeout and disappear. The solution is to use the diamond method.

Tim Wright "The older I get, the better I was..."

Xbox Series X, Asus Prime H510M-K, Intel Core i5-11400F 4.40GHz, 16Gb DDR4 3200, 2TB WD Black NVME SSD, 1TB Samsung SATA SSD

NVidia RTX3060 Ti 8Gb, Logitech Flight Yoke System, CH Pro Pedals, Acer K272HL 27", Windows 11 Home x64

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IFR and VFR: I have two planes, both flying IFR from two different airlines, both going to whichever one of three gates they want, all three gates are now allocated for them (and other airlines) to use, and all three are empty when the planes arrive. One King Air which behaves normally and one Dash 8-100 which is larger and stops and sulks and then POOF! The same thing happens no matter which way the wind is and whichever taxiway they are using as a result. So it seems "it" is nothing to do with IFR and VFR.
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Kenai has one large runway, and all taxiway exits (one at each end and two in the middle, dividing the runway into three approx equal parts) are to the same side. There is no taxiway that crosses a runway. I have watched all AI planes arrival and there is no conflict with other traffic on any taxiway. Their parking spots are empty, or if they do not have an allocated space then there is an empty space available, in fact more than one.
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The removing hold shorts idea as a test gave me food for thought. I deleted them and then made new ones; didn't solve anything. But I tried it without any and noticed that I had remembered it the wrong way around from years ago when I forgot to include a hold short.

 

As atc directs traffic there is no free choice, and the end taxiways are effectively for departure and arrival while the middle two are only for arrival. If I remove the hold shorts then departing planes taxi onto the runway, wait, and then POOF! Arriving planes just promise to speak to ground but don't and taxi off to their parking spaces.

 

So if I remove only the middle two then that solves the problem for small planes that exit by the first taxiway they encounter (and they never had a problem anyway) and also for medium planes that exit by the second taxiway. None of them speak to Ground and they just go and park. Big still have a problem as they go all the way to the far end. They all (including Big) still leave as they did before without any problem including talking to Ground etc. (When the wind is the other way around the first taxiway becomes the second, so don't say Aha!)

 

So anything that uses less than 5,300 feet out of the 7,830 doesn't have a problem. But I wish I could understand what "it" is that causes this.

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Curiouser and curiouser! I have an Alaskan Airports collection with a PAEN scenery and the ADE Fault Finder shows this error:

RUNWAY [30 > 62] - Link off Rwy - This is a RUNWAY link type that does not start and/or end on a runway. This may cause ATC and Traffic problems

All the parking spots are for GA except for one cargo ramp. This link connects the parking at the 19R end to the main taxiway, but it doesn't stop GA from parking. I don't have anything larger than a King Air parked there though, could this be the same issue as yours?

Tim Wright "The older I get, the better I was..."

Xbox Series X, Asus Prime H510M-K, Intel Core i5-11400F 4.40GHz, 16Gb DDR4 3200, 2TB WD Black NVME SSD, 1TB Samsung SATA SSD

NVidia RTX3060 Ti 8Gb, Logitech Flight Yoke System, CH Pro Pedals, Acer K272HL 27", Windows 11 Home x64

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I started with the default FS9 layout and then rebuilt it, so no, I don't have that problem, and in fact when tested no unknown problems are detected. Explanation: I have KNOWN problems that are created by me intentionally, such as a taxiway not being connected to the rest of the layout; it is only there for the ground markings and in fact is not meant to be used by planes at all. I would attach a layout pic to this if I could see the way to do it.
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