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Bad flyer!


KCD

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This is probably the wrong forum for this, but here goes anyway. Recently I downloaded a freeware version of the Cessna 340-A, (the file is available here: 340aup2.zip). This is an FS-9 plane, although I believe there are FSX models available. However, it is the FS-9 version that concerns me. No matter what I do, I cannot get this bird to land. No matter how I trim, no matter the power level, the plane simply wants to "plow the ground". I wondered if anyone on this forum might have some suggestions that a non-programmer might try to make this plane an enjoyable experience. Thanks for your help.
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You gave the file for the "Update". Here is the aircraft.

 

FS2004 (ACOF) - FS2004 General Aviation FS2004 Cessna 340A

[ Download | View ]

Name: ces340a.zip

Size: 7,418,944 Date: 03-16-2007 Downloads: 2,814

 

ces340a.gif

fcq1.gif FS2004 Cessna 340A. Aircraft features include two new Danish liveries, OY-VIM, Vision Air and OY-GCF, white and blue. Original aircraft by Brian and Tim Novick. Updated by Roger Mole, Bob Chicilo and now by Brian Novick and Claus Vendelboe Holmberg.

 

 

Look out! Zippy's gonna play with it!:rolleyes:

 

Did a quick test flight, about a 10 mile circle route, it flew OK and since I had 1/2 tanks of fuel, it did come in at a faster rate than I expected. I landed OK at about 90 kts. with full flaps. Are you saying you are having a tough time doing a slight flare while landing, hence the term "plowing the ground"?

Still thinking about a new flightsim only computer!  ✈️

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Hi, Zippy. What I'm saying is that no matter how nose high I trim this puppy, it hasn't enough elevator to bring the nose up for a normal landing at 100 knts. I know I gave the update, that's the file that I have (it's a complete plane). The other one I couldn't even get off the ground from a 5,000' tarmac runway, so I went for the update. That one got airborne, but likes to crash. My assumption is that it should fly like a King Air 90, or a Seneca V? I finally got it on the ground, but not at the 105 knts suggested, I was quite hot at about 136 with 50% fuel in bth main tanks. With full tanks, it is the perfect practice plane for the von Peerhoven School of Aviation Mastery. One thing that is bothersome is when you switch the AP off, it noses down sharply. Along with coming in very hot, I switched the AP off at about 1,000' to get over the correction problem and back to normal before meeting the tarmac! I think this thing is pretty, but a bear!
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Hi, Zippy. What I'm saying is that no matter how nose high I trim this puppy, it hasn't enough elevator to bring the nose up for a normal landing at 100 knts. I know I gave the update, that's the file that I have (it's a complete plane). The other one I couldn't even get off the ground from a 5,000' tarmac runway, so I went for the update. That one got airborne, but likes to crash. My assumption is that it should fly like a King Air 90, or a Seneca V? I finally got it on the ground, but not at the 105 knts suggested, I was quite hot at about 136 with 50% fuel in bth main tanks. With full tanks, it is the perfect practice plane for the von Peerhoven School of Aviation Mastery. One thing that is bothersome is when you switch the AP off, it noses down sharply. Along with coming in very hot, I switched the AP off at about 1,000' to get over the correction problem and back to normal before meeting the tarmac! I think this thing is pretty, but a bear!

 

Sorry, Klee, but I guess I was cornfused with which aircraft was which. I will retest with the update one and see it does the "crash dance" for me.

 

Klee, don't make my head spin!:p

This file is an update only...no full aircraft! you need the file that I showedplus adding the update to it! I flew the corrected aircraft.

 

FS2004 (ACOF) - FS2004 General Aviation FS2004 Cessna 340A Update

[ Download | View ]

Name: 340aup2.zip

Size: 69,995 Date: 04-11-2006 Downloads: 1,009

 

340aup2.gif

FS2004 Cessna 340A Update. An update of the Cessna 340A update by Roger Mole. Original aircraft by Brian and Tim Novick. Changes the size of the airspeed indicator and GPS a bit, making it easier to see over the nose, and updates the flight dynamics. By Bob Chicilo.

Still thinking about a new flightsim only computer!  ✈️

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As you know I use only FSX.

But I tried it anyway.

 

 

I installed what MrZippy pointed out.

The base aircraft, and then the added update files.

 

Then did two patterns, from takeoff to landing.

 

First one, on gut feeling, normal 3/4 down pitch trim switch position, full flaps at takeoff, flying the whole pattern with gear down, I ended up flying most of the time at 110 knot's, good windscreen view, and good landing.

That was with full fuel.

 

The second pattern I did my best to fly as slow as possible. Kept adding trim, and managed to maintain 75-80 knots.

Had to move up the seat at least 10 positions, and was still not able to get a good look at the touchdown zone.

I didn't crash the tail off, but it was close. Not a good landing.

That flight was with less then 50% fuel.

 

110 seemed much better.

 

Yes, from the outside it looks like my default FSX Beech Baron, which lands much slower. Hmm.

Decided to Google, found this real-world spec chart.

It says: Approach speed 117 knots! (with flaps and gear down)

http://www.aopa.org/Pilot-Resources/Aircraft-Ownership/Aircraft-Fact-Sheets/Cessna-340

 

Enjoy!

il88pp

 

(Note, I stayed airborne, but it wasn't easy to trim accurately. In FSX there is no visible Vertical Speed gauge. (lots of FS98 gauge warnings.)).

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
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Hi Folks,

 

While I haven't tried this one - all I can say is attempting to modify flight dynamics is not for the faint of heart... About the last thing I worked on when I was active around here was modifying the Just Flight Duchess to improve some flight characteristics in FS9... I spent countless hours on it... I purchased a flight dynamics tool - can't think of the name at the moment - from one of the experts (he did the Coolsky MD-80 and many of the Flight1 products) - and it made it possible/easier... The flight checks are what is so time consuming - the parameters are so interrelated that you really have to test everything on every tweak... Probably doesn't help you here but I always hate seeing a decent plane with a poor flight model... I don't think the plane should take off with full flaps...

 

Regards,

Scott

bJQZKiw.png
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Zippy,

Just so we understand each other, the screenie you show is the plane I'm flying, although I've repainted it, don't you know. My version came as an update file, all inclusive. I still have the zip file and if I knew how, I'd attach it here. Actually, I have both the un-updated and the updated versions. It's the un-updated version that I couldn't get off the ground (it never got a chance to plow the tarmac on landing). Flown hot on approach, I was able to get it down safely, but you better have a long runway, and kiss the grass on touchdown! At first, I thought it might be the update, I've had problems with some of Bob Chicilo's updated files in the past. That's why I went to the original, but Chilico was right, the original badly needed updating. I'll just keep experimenting, eventually I'll figure out how to fly it properly.

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Hi Scott,

Initially, I tried the plane with no flaps, just a mile+ of runway and full power... never got off the ground! Then one notch of flaps, full power ant the same long runway... it did get off the ground, but somewhat after the runway had ended. By the way, I had trimmed it way nose high. Finally, I tried the same procedure with full flaps without any noticeable change in result. Either I have a controller issue, or the plane is FUBAR!

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Hi Klee,

 

LOL - sounds like the flight model is FUBAR - I know you've been around here forever and you know what you're doing... Everything I do in MSFS has to be fairly realistic - as that's what does it for me.... I remember years back playing with the AFG PC-12 because I couldn't get anywhere near "book" performance out of the plane - eventually I just gave up and moved on to other things... Again - always disappointed when I can't get a beautiful model to fly right...

 

On pure coincidence - I had lunch two weeks ago with an owner of a C340A (I was hoping for a ride with stick time but it didn't work out - maybe next time) - he keeps his plane at Great Barrington MA (KGBR) which has a 2,500 foot runway (seemed short for such a big plane) and he has no problems getting in or out... 29 has rising terrain and obstructions... If I get a flight - I'll relay my impressions...

 

*** I did get a good tour of the plane though and for such a large plane - the inside seems pretty cramped and small... It's a bit of a struggle to climb over all the seats and squeeze yourself into the cockpit... It's a beautiful plane and pressurized...

 

Regards,

Scott

bJQZKiw.png
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It takes an awful lot of work to get a plane in MSFS (either FS9 or FSX) that looks real good, AND flies correctly (as similar to "real world" as possible). A lot of developers seem to choose one or t'other. There are few who spend the time to get both.

 

That's just my impression of MSFS planes in general. I am not trying to denigrate the efforts of ANY dev or group. Just making an observation.

 

I too have spent many an hour tweaking flight dynamics, both the aircraft.cfg and the .air files, and i really love getting something right, but Scott is right, it takes a long time, and all the settings are very interrelated.

 

Great flights and fair winds to all!

Pat☺

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Had a thought...then there was the smell of something burning, and sparks, and then a big fire, and then the lights went out! I guess I better not do that again!

Sgt, USMC, 10 years proud service, Inactive reserve now :D

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Scott, I like your attitude. A month or so ago I was on here with a question about a C-404 Titan, specifically the Mike Stone version. Now I always believed Mike made a fine model, albeit without frills like lots of moving parts, etc, but the models were good. Therefore I had no reason to believe the 404 was faulty, until I flew it and studied up on it. That airplane has geared props, so it doesn't fly with the same MP/RPM ratios most planes do, it's far different. No information could be found on the Internet, so I asked a few questions here. Because I wanted to fly the plane the way it was intended, I collected an incredible amount of flack with comments like "it's just a game", and "get over it". I wanted that plane because I had just (after all these years at the sims) started with a VA and the 404 could carry more weight than the 402. Not a big deal that I couldn't find the answers, but annoying that people seemed to ridicule the effort to do things the way they were intended. I'm too many years a pilot to change my habits now, if it was meant to fly in a certain way, that's the way I want to fly it! I spent months and endless hours trying to correct an issue with a little plane that had a fixed prop, but you could never get the RPM down to normal ranges because the builder had modeled it for a constant speed prop. Finally got that one fixed and it was a joy to fly, but not the 404... I still fly the 404, and eventually found some answers, and yes, it does cruise at 1800 RPM and 27" MP (55%), odd as that may seem, but not the Mike Stone model, you fly that version as if it were a souped up C402.

 

By the way, coming in hot solves the problem in the 340A, but it is still a real beast, not like any other Cessna twin I've played with.

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Well, I've wasted an entire week messing with this plane. Finally mastered the art of the hot landing, but this is no aircraft for even the slightest crosswind. I'm going to do something I rarely do, give up. Thank you all for your suggestions and assistance, have a Happy Thanksgiving one and all!
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