Why a 'Go Around'

This has happened a few times lately, I have clearance to land, nothing in front of me nothing coming in from behind, I can see the airport very clear, nothing waiting to take off and nothing on the runway or any exits.

I'm about 100 feet from touchdown or even closer then I get a call to go around, I was puzzled why, has this happened to any of you and what could be the reason?

On the next attempt I land perfect in the same conditions, very strange.

This has happened a few times lately, I have clearance to land, nothing in front of me nothing coming in from behind, I can see the airport very clear, nothing waiting to take off and nothing on the runway or any exits.

I'm about 100 feet from touchdown or even closer then I get a call to go around, I was puzzled why, has this happened to any of you and what could be the reason?

On the next attempt I land perfect in the same conditions, very strange.

Read the AOPA newsletter just out. It has for a cover article a very interesting discussion about "Going Around." "Going Around" apparently is a very dangerous process for a lot of GA pilots. We get so interested in making a good landing, we forget to prepare to not land!

This article doesn't address your issue at all. But it does remind all of us who fly and/or sim, of the correct procedures for a safe go around. The first step being, level off and prepare the plane to climb. That's before you attempt to climb out or enter a turn!.

If we're simming, we should also use correct procedures. Going around can get so annoying whether RW or in a sim, it can get very sloppy & possibly deadly!

What better time to practice your procedure than when getting a surprising "Go Around" transmission? I try to always take that attitude when I get that unexpected call. That puts another challenge into the flight and makes us better.

This happens when a slow airplane - say a Piper Cub - gets a landing clearance and you come in - also with a landing clearance - before that plane.

Sometimes that slower airplane is not even in Final and still flying downwind.

The only way to respond to this is ABORT and GO AROUND.

People telling you to ignore this are also saying "play arcade games".

The only way to respond to this is ABORT and GO AROUND.

Not when the wife is telling you to get to bed pronto .... or else!

"People telling you to ignore this are also saying "play arcade games".

FYI: It is NOT reality and it IS a "game" to many of us .... especially when we ignore the insufferable yack of ATC or we fly under a bridge, or we just CNTRL-E or -W or -WHATNOT .... you get the picture.

To answer the OP's question .... it's a PC "game", programmed in a distant galaxy a long, long time ago .... and stuff happens. Have FUN!

..... you too, rainerk

I don't use FS ATC put the product in my banner will give you a go-around if you are in a retractable gear aircraft and your wheels are not down.

I was taught the landing checklist GUMPF

Gas (tank selector on fullest or both, auxiliary fuel pump on if option)

U (Undercarriage - gear down for retractables)

M (Mixture full rich for non-turbine aircraft and for turbine aircraft in Fly, not ground-beta mode)

P (Prop RPM maximum for variable pitch props)

F (Flaps set for landing per flaps schedule - possibly more than once in pattern)

Not included are cowl flap settings and carburetor heat settings (weather dependent) for aspirated engines.

An exception to the full rich rule for take-off or landing is when the effective density altitude is high due to airport altitude and excessive heat effect on oxygen reduction. On very hot days and/or very high altitude airports full rich would be too much introducing partial flooding reducing maximum power if needed. On take off under such conditions on run-up you would with brakes on provide take-off power, lean slowly until maximum rpm for fixed pitch or manifold pressure or EGT, then back off toward rich slightly. If landing in similar conditions you can estimate the position of the mixture control from your take-off observations.

This happens when a slow airplane - say a Piper Cub - gets a landing clearance and you come in - also with a landing clearance - before that plane.

Sometimes that slower airplane is not even in Final and still flying downwind.

I am pretty sure this is your issue, Colin. The problem arises (from my observations) because FS2004 gives landing clearance when an aircraft is a specific distance from the airport. An aircraft flying VFR may be doing a circuit to reach the runway but when it reaches the specified distance it gets given clearance to land even though it is several minutes from lining up with the runway. Meanwhile you are on finals and if you are given clearance to land after that point in time you are, without doubt, going to get a "go around". Whilst FS2004 is so much better than FS2002 for dealing with landing order, this is one of its little foibles.

One way to deal with this is to "Refresh AI" if you listen carefully to ATC and hear landing clearance being given to such an aircraft. This will push the VFR aircraft back to go though landing request again and will almost certainly get cleared to land after your aircraft. You can assign a key to do this, I use "R".

John

Sounds to me like the AI ATC has the rule that "Slower aircraft have right-of-way" built in. You may get clearance, but then a piper cub come's along, and bang! YOU get the go-around, if you are faster.

Just offering a possibility...

Pat☺

Pat, you are giving ATC too much credit, it is not mart enough to know what plane is faster than the next.

The FS ATC system is a reactive system, it does not do anything until an airplane crosses a trigger that it responds to.

If the AI Cub crosses the trigger for ATC to clear it to land before you cross the trigger in your F-18, the Cub will be cleared first and "own" the runway until it's wheels leave the runway texture.

If you pass the Cub on the way to the runway you will be told to go around.

Reverse the scenario and the same thing will happen.

Should you somehow get to the runway in your Cub before the AI F-18, you will be told to go around.

peace,

the Bean

This happens when a slow airplane - say a Piper Cub - gets a landing clearance and you come in - also with a landing clearance - before that plane.

Sometimes that slower airplane is not even in Final and still flying downwind.

The only way to respond to this is ABORT and GO AROUND.

People telling you to ignore this are also saying "play arcade games".

It is a game. People that always spout otherwise crack me up.

Real world if you at the outer marker (or is it the inner marker) and given clearance you "own" the approach as the "Bean" stated.

Real world I was after the outer marker in a Beech A-26 in VFR conditions when tower stated a CRJ-200 was behind me coming up on my tail. They requested me to go around. I offered to break out and land hold short on the perpendicular cross runway (cross winds were within my limit) and everybody was happy. Even got a shout-out on the com from the landing CRJ.

I don't know if in those final stages FS ATC will allow you to request a different runway. The best thing you can have is a TCAS gauge in your aircraft to give you situational awareness in regard to traffic in your area so that weather permitting you can take an action like that or pace yourself.

As far as FS's ATC system goes, it is an arcade game. FS's ATC doesn't doing any spacing of airplanes. It gives clearances based on points in space, with little regard to aircraft performance. Most commonly, placing 172's etc. in front of jets. In the real world, the slower aircraft would be extended downwind, or would be broken off the approach and sequenced to follow the faster aircraft. This is also considering that the faster aircraft is likely on an instrument approach procedure. And don't even get me started on the vectoring by approach control.

I gave up on FS's ATC a long time ago, and I haven't had a stellar experience with the online guys either. I just use the map on the GPS to vector myself around and sequence myself with other traffic.

Sounds to me like the AI ATC has the rule that "Slower aircraft have right-of-way" built in. You may get clearance, but then a piper cub come's along, and bang! YOU get the go-around, if you are faster.

Just offering a possibility...

Pat☺

The problem comes about when approach switches you to tower, and tower has already cleared some VFR guy doing 90kts on a 4 mile final. You're expected to follow the guy regardless of what you're flying. This isn't going to happen this way in the real world unless someone has screwed up. But it's SOP with FS. I usually just pass them by, and land anyway. FS's ATC is a gimmick with little functionality.

Sounds to me like the AI ATC has the rule that "Slower aircraft have right-of-way" built in. You may get clearance, but then a piper cub come's along, and bang! YOU get the go-around, if you are faster.

Just offering a possibility...

Pat☺

It seems just the opposite for me. Nearly every time I'm waved off there is a larger and/or faster AI aircraft on approach several miles back. What is so irritating though is that I'm never told to go around when I'm a mile away ... no, they wait til I'm flaps down, gear down, nose up, ten feet above the runway and five knots above stall. And I ignore them, this being my own little sim world (I suspect in this situation in reality I would be allowed to land and the approaching aircraft waved off, unless it had an emergency).

On this same subject, I am a former PP so I have some understanding, but on simming it is a game, on the other hand people like me cannot fly due to health reason's. That is why,we choose to use Flt sim so we can still have the opportunity to still fly virtually.

What I hate is the fact that I mostly fly liners (on Flt sim), I am close to touching down on Earth (approx. 5 nm), when ATC taxi's a plane unto the runway that should not happen that is not reality obvious reason's. That is one of my complaints, as well as I am approx. 20 nm out (in liner) on another flt when I contact the tower my announcing approach, the liner behind me is approx. 25-30 nm out he gets landing clearance before me & passes me by I hate that. Again understanding this is a game thank goodness. Kenny

Aismooth version 120 (the last) will take care of some of these issues. See the manual that comes with the last one. If you turn it on it should prevent ai aircraft separated from you. Turn on the respond to user aircraft option and set up your separation distances both in-line and perpendicular (for parallel runway separation).

Not all (most recent) airports are in its sql database but it should help out in most cases.

You'll need fsuipc3 (for FS9) but aismooth will register itself. The most recent version is here:

http://forum.simflight.com/topic/66139-updated-modules/

BTW: I had a VFR CPL and was on my way to IFR certification when health intervened as well.

It seems just the opposite for me. Nearly every time I'm waved off there is a larger and/or faster AI aircraft on approach several miles back. What is so irritating though is that I'm never told to go around when I'm a mile away ... no, they wait til I'm flaps down, gear down, nose up, ten feet above the runway and five knots above stall. And I ignore them, this being my own little sim world (I suspect in this situation in reality I would be allowed to land and the approaching aircraft waved off, unless it had an emergency).

It is a computer game - software works the way it is designed and even if it isn't perfect it is consistent. As I said before, if you understand that the first aircraft within a set number of miles of the runway is given clearance and will then be then the first to be allowed land regardless of speed, size and other traffic it is easy to deal with.

So when you hear a "Pigeon 456, cleared to land, runway xx" and you can't see any feathered friends between you and the runway you already know that unless that pigeon lands and clears the runway you haven't a hope of anything other than a go-around at the last minute. FS will allow you to choose to abort your landing and go around earlier if you wish.

FS2002 was more as you describe - the first to reach the runway was the one that was allowed to land and if you were a slower aircraft you didn't have much chance if traffic was busy. There were many good improvements to ATC whan FS2004 came along but if we want to continue playing this rather old game this many years on we have to learn to cope with its remaining foilbles because nobody is going to fix them now.

John

Another annoying thing is at times you get to the runway, there is an aircraft in front of you and he announces he wants to take off, he is told to wait as there is an incoming aircraft.

That aircraft lands and ATC wait till it in on the turn off but still the AC in front of you isn't told to line up they keep it waiting, more minutes pass then you hear another AC on approach, more minutes pass then the 10 minute rule comes in to play and the AC in front of you vanishes.

So now it's your turn to wait at the hold short, ATC tell you to wait because of incoming aircraft, again it lands and gets to the turn off but ATC don't tell you to line they keep you waiting.

After a few minutes you hear them clear another AC to land minutes pass and you are still waiting, in that time if they had lined you up earlier you could have took off well before the incoming aircraft.

As already said its a game but it's annoying sometimes, having said all that I have been told to line up when an aircraft has just taken off and took myself before the incoming aircraft got there so why does it happen in one case but not another?

All aircraft (AI or Player) will be held if/when an incoming aircraft has been given permission to land, so we are back to the same chestnut of non-IFR traffic being given permission to land unrealistically early as they are within a specified distance of the runway even if still performing their circuit.

Again it is a case of listening to ATC and hearing what is being given permission to land. If you hear anything cleared to land you know you are going to have to wait. If you hear that pigeon flapping his wings as hard as he can on a slow circuit cleared to land then refresh the AI and send him back to his nest to start again. Or turn off GA AI. Or reduce the AI percentage. So many options there if needed.

John

I think a lot of these problems would go away if that rule applied much closer to the airport. Say 5 miles out? Also the radar vectors should not start until about 30 miles out when talking to approach control.

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Using aismooth to space out incoming aircraft reduces the takeoff queue so ai taking off can interleave with arrivals. This helps with the mad ai takeoff and arrival rush when a flight is loaded into FS as ai are allowed to be activated within a certain window around their scheduled times.

With aismooth be aware some aicraft placed in holds will disappear after the FS time out.

The product in my tag switches to approach control for your aircraft just after 40 nm out where an altitude crossing restriction has been established to pass from center to approach control. This has not much affect on ai but it follows in most FAA territory the territorial boundaries of approach and departure control. A few areas in the US and other jurisdictions have two stages of radar in the sense of local wide area approach control and then local airport radar approach control. SOCAL Southern California control and London area and local control come to mind. These are high traffic areas with a high airport density of medium and large airports packed close together.

Instrument charts will show the stages of radar control in these areas.