My issue with Windows 10 upgrade

This is my personal opinion but I have a serious issue with the upcoming upgrade to Windows 10.

http://www.howtogeek.com/223068/what-you-need-to-know-about-windows-update-on-windows-10/

It's bad enough from a regular computing situation but I believe it could create real issues for the simmer.

If the above article is correct, and I have NO reason to doubt it, ALL updates will be forced - this includes hardare drivers etc. Although systems are improving in their handling of background tasks, the fact that Windows 10 will be d/l updates at IT'S discretion is annoying. The fact that *I* have *NO* say in what gets installed on my system is infuriating.

At best, with the Pro version, you can delay any update EXCEPT critical security issues but those delayed will be installed eventually. If you delete an update, it will be reinstalled.

Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill but I can easily see a forced install of a new NVidia driver that screws up my system.

I did read somewhere, lost the link, that someone had a registry hack to disable the updates but that it also flags the Windows install as "non genuine".

I expect that I'll be staying with W7 Pro for the time being.

Just MHO,

Vic

Simple...

Don't upgrade!

I'm going to buy a Windows 10 machine in September. Not upgrade this one.

I doubt that Microsoft is going to force NVidia updates in W10, unless you're using a default video driver that Windows setup would install. We'll still have to deal with Adobe, Sun Java, NVidia, and AMD updaters as separate entities.

If you have an NVidia card installed, you will get driver updates. They used to be optional but will not be in the future.

@entwade - That solves nothing - the problem is with Windows 10 not the upgrade. In the long run it may turn out to be a non issue but I've seen too many MS updates brick a system through the years.

Vic

I don't see this as a issue at all and I think that more problems arise from people who have failed to keep their rigs updated than those who do. The updates don't cause a major performance drop during the download process if you happen to be using FSX at the time and my understanding is you are still going to have to click a install button to install them.

As for the NiVida update, again I don't see this as a issue as its unlikely a driver update will cause any ill effect to the GPU that will cause a performance issue.

You will still have the option to select certain updates you don't want to install, it is just the critical updates that will not be selectable to opt out of, and I see no reason for wanting to opt out of a windows critical update. You should be in the habit of installing updates from your hardware provider anyway, I check once a month for driver updates to mine.

You miss my point Darryl - I update regularly but NOT automatically. My problem is not with updating, it's the forced updates. You are incorrect if you think you can NOT install an update - in the PRO version you can delay BUT they WILL be installed. In the HOME version - all will be installed period. Only in the enterprise version do you have the option to delay.

Sorry, but I have seen NVidia cards destroyed by a bad driver - I prefer to only install the HARDWARE drivers of MY choice - not windows. If I have a driver that works, WHY would I want to update to another just because it's newer unless there's a reason SPECIFIC to MY GPU.

And again I have seen systems bricked by a bad windows update.

And if you are in a flight using high graphics and high CPU usage and windows starts an update, you surely WILL see a performance drop or at least some serious stutters. It depends on WHEN the processing starts.

Vic

Hmmm... Seems to me that people are saying that forced updates are good, and those who delay or eliminate certain upgrades are bad, regardless of the circumstances. I agree with Vic that I, I, not someone else, should have the final word on what goes onto my system, and when (or if). That's like me believing you shouldn't fly your Cub solo until you have 250 PIC and 600 landings in it, and trying to enforce it on you, perhaps by blocking the runway until you get the required time and landings.

Why is everyone trying to rationalize Microsoft's behavior (as people so often do)?

To add to what Vic is saying, there are times when an update will lose compatibility with something I want to keep -- for example, last time I updated Firefox, it took away compatibility with a weather add-on that I love. At least that mistake was mine, not something that appeared out of nowhere.

And I certainly don't want updates to come when I'm on the road, using a hotel's or a campground's wifi, or chewing up my bandwidth and my data allowance on my phone (or phone line) when I'm using it as a hot spot (I have 1.5 GB /month, not unlimited).

Come on, folks -- are we not supposed to actually OWN these machines (then why did I have to pay so much for it)? Are we not supposed to have control and say-so over things we own? Can I put Limburger cheese into your lunchbox, just because I think you need it?

And I certainly don't want updates to come when I'm on the road, using a hotel's or a campground's wifi, or chewing up my bandwidth and my data allowance on my phone (or phone line) when I'm using it as a hot spot (I have 1.5 GB /month, not unlimited).

You can tell Windows 10, and Windows 8 too I believe, that you are on a metered connection and it won't download the updates.

As for the automatic installs, my main issue is that they are taking it too far by not restricting it to just security updates. Far too many people don't install security updates at all, and their machines are the ones that get infected and used for sending spam or as part of a botnet to attack others. At the very least the Pro edition should retain the options to pick and choose the updates to install.

The upgrade to Win 10 is free. It is optional. Read Microsofts requirements for the upgrade, such as allowing critical updates. If you do not agree, do not upgrade. Nobody is forcing anything onto anybody.

Talk about "looking a gift horse in the mouth".

Sent from my tablet thingy!

The upgrade to Win 10 is free. It is optional. Read Microsofts requirements for the upgrade, such as allowing critical updates. If you do not agree, do not upgrade. Nobody is forcing anything onto anybody.

Talk about "looking a gift horse in the mouth".

 

 

Sent from my tablet thingy!

Do you really believe what you just said? Sooner or later, IF you want to stay with windows, you will HAVE to upgrade and unless MS changes their high handed attitude with regard to updates - you will be stuck with the same problem..

Sorry I don't see a gift horse, I see a wolf in sheeps clothing or at best a pig in a poke.

In order to get the BENEFITS of W10, and I believe there are many, I have to cede control or certain aspects which I do NOT want changed w/o my explicit approval.

Vic

I agree with Vic. I went to Tech school for computers in 1984 so I have been around them for many years. I used to be the "I better keep everything current because that is the way to get my machine to run it's best" guy. A few years ago I realized I was wrong. There is an old saying "If it ain't broke don't fix it"

Here is an example, we have had many problems with nVidia driver releases over the last year breaking things in P3DV2. Lots of light issues and other things. If my system is running fine and the latest driver does nothing to improve or fix something why install it?

Same with Microsoft updates. When they release those the only thing they take in to account is the operating system. They have no idea what you have installed on your machine or what kind of tweaks you have made. Do you want to have to go back and reset things all the time because of a forced update you may not have needed? Or if you needed it are you not the best person to decide that? Are you also not the best person to know what may need to be backed up before that update is installed?

Sorry, I don't like ANYONE having control over my machine but me. I see no reason to go to Windows 10 unless software I want to run requires it.

Ross

You got a link from Microsoft saying Nvidia drivers aren't optional.

All you have is some lame website making inferences based on an updated EULA, hich saysnothing about which updates are mandatory. This is nothing more than FUD, or at best click-bait, as if Microsoft doesn't already know how crappy AMD and Nvidia drivers are.

Do you want to have to go back and reset things all the time because of a forced update you may not have needed? Or if you needed it are you not the best person to decide that? Are you also not the best person to know what may need to be backed up before that update is installed?

Can you give an example of MS resetting any "settings" outside of Internet Explorer? No you aren't the best person to decide if you need the update. It's better that Microsoft decides for you when to update then some lame website installing it's own "update" without you knowing. That's the whole point. Once Microsoft updates there's very little stopping anyone from diffing the install and writing a hack within hours.

You got a link from Microsoft saying Nvidia drivers aren't optional.

 

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Go to the MS site yourself and read what they say. They do not mention ANY vendor by name but they flatly state that ALL updates - Security, Fixes & Features are MANDATORY and can NOT be refused in HOME - they cab be delayed in PRO and be refused in Enterprise. There are no more optional updates.

Is not Microsoft's words good enough or do you just visit "lame" sites?

Vic

Go to the MS site yourself and read what they say. They do not mention ANY vendor by name but they flatly state that ALL updates - Security, Fixes & Features are MANDATORY and can NOT be refused in HOME - they cab be delayed in PRO and be refused in Enterprise. There are no more optional updates.

 

Is not Microsoft's words good enough or do you just visit "lame" sites?

 

Vic

Why don't you just go to Windows 10 itself, look in the Available updates and see that NVIDIA DRIVERS are under OPTIONAL. Oh wait.. FUD?

Because I'd rather believe their words rather than a pre release version . Perhaps they've had enough complaints to change their STATED policy - I certainly hope so. However, until their actions on the released version confirm your observations, I shall continue to believe their knowledge base.

Either way, the idea of forced updates I do not like.

Vic

I fully understand some people not being happy with not having control over what is downloaded and installed on their PC. However all MS is proposing in doing is the critical and security updates being "a forced update".

MS also states that should there be any issues with any update you have the ability to revert the problem update to the previous one.

Like all the previous OS systems brought out by MS there will be changes as problems and disliked features emerge. It is for that reason I have never and advise others not to update to a new OS for 12 months while those issues are found and resolved.

I see MS reason for doing what they are doing with updates and I don't believe there is anything other than trying to get some conformity in how critical and security updates are implemented, which can only be a good thing for the consumer.

As far as having dramas with drivers, If you keep your manufactures drivers updated I can see there being no reason now or in the future why MS would produce a driver for a particular band of GPU, and having a 3rd party GPU you would be wanting to download a windows OS driver for it and not a driver from your brands site.

MS does not mention they will be producing forced updated drivers for any 3rd party hardware and as long as you are running the correct manufactures drivers for your hardware and not the default windows drivers, windows will not try and update the active driver from a 3rd party.

Again I understand why you dislike this decision by MS, but when you look deeper in to why and how it will be implemented if they choose to run with the "forced updates" it makes perfect sense and there is no insidious or hidden reason for them wanting to do it.

and there is no insidious or hidden reason for them wanting to do it.

That isn't the point -- the point is that it shouldn't be an outside party controlling my machine. Period. No matter what.

There are a lot of reasons I never ever rush to have the latest operating system. The concerns expressed here would be one of them. The "Free Upgrade" aspect of this one did get a chuckle out of me, but I am more than happy to wait a bit and know what I am getting into even if it means I have to buy it.

I consider it to be an investment in my sanity. :)

Can you give an example of MS resetting any "settings" outside of Internet Explorer? No you aren't the best person to decide if you need the update. It's better that Microsoft decides for you when to update then some lame website installing it's own "update" without you knowing. That's the whole point. Once Microsoft updates there's very little stopping anyone from diffing the install and writing a hack within hours.

LMAO!!!! I think my MCSE certificate hanging on my wall tells me that YES I am the one to decide when my computer needs an update and NOT Microsoft.

I personally don't care who goes to windows 10 and who doesn't. And yes Alaskan, there is plenty of information on the web about how windows updates can screw things up. Google is your friend you know. If I gave you the answer how would you learn??

I fully understand some people not being happy with not having control over what is downloaded and installed on their PC. However all MS is proposing in doing is the critical and security updates being "a forced update".

MS also states that should there be any issues with any update you have the ability to revert the problem update to the previous one.

 

As far as having dramas with drivers, If you keep your manufactures drivers updated I can see there being no reason now or in the future why MS would produce a driver for a particular band of GPU, and having a 3rd party GPU you would be wanting to download a windows OS driver for it and not a driver from your brands site.

That's like saying, if we break your system, you can fix it! At least the PRO version has the ability to DELAY the update and wait until the poor HOME users find out if it trashes their systems. By then MS will pull the update - but for the home user - damage is done.

The fallacy with the hardware issue is that it is NOT ALWAYS the best move to get the latest and greatest Nvidia driver. Anyone who blindly updates to every new Nvidia driver is being foolish.

I understand fully all the reasons WHY but my point was and still is - *I* am the one who decides what goes on my system. I have 7 different systems, each set up differently for varying reasons - why in the world would I want MS to screw them up? I may WANT to use the strength of Windows 10 but not with that potential for issues.

On all my windows systems through the years *I* have chosen which updates to install - *I* was the one who chose to install or ignore security updates, etc. And I NEVER installed any hardware driver update from Windows - always direct from the mfgr and ONLY if I deemed it necessary.

Go back through the years on google, etc - see how many times I've posted about a problem with MY system - it has worked for me for over 20 years - why in the world would I want to change now - just because some suit at MS thinks we're all idiots and cannot make decisions?

Unless MS makes some adjustments to their STATED policy, I expect this will become a big issue.

Vic

Hi folks,

Whilst it is healthy to discuss potential problems that may affect our simming, could it be that people are jumping the gun on this AND assuming that Win 10 will ship with no option to control updates.

Firstly, it seems that the majority of the information out there regarding Win 10 updates are clearly from those people who have chosen to 'test' the product prior to general release. It is often the case that beta copies of a software have restrictions imposed on what functions can be used. Clearly, it would make sense to restrict certain functions, especially those that would effectively force the beta tester to report issues that show compatibility issues.

Secondly, a quick goggle on the subject shows that there are a number of ways to get around the problems caused by auto updates, including an official MS KB fix that allows beta testers to select manual updates.

Time will tell but IMHO Win 10 will probably ship with the same update options that come with 7 and 8.

LMAO!!!! I think my MCSE certificate hanging on my wall tells me that YES I am the one to decide when my computer needs an update and NOT Microsoft.

 

I personally don't care who goes to windows 10 and who doesn't. And yes Alaskan, there is plenty of information on the web about how windows updates can screw things up. Google is your friend you know. If I gave you the answer how would you learn??

Your MSCE certificate in what? I didn't realize Microsoft had one on Security Updates. What was the question on the exam? As if they'd ask you something so damn simple.

Interesting discussions. Hasn't everyone read how hackers in their living room disabled the transmission and brakes of a Jeep Cherokee while it was driving on the road? They also played music through its' entertainment system, & set the A/C to max. All of that without any input or permission from the driver, who crashed because of what they did while he was driving.

I'm not open to Microsoft or anyone else modifying anything I own without my permission. No I won't be buying a smart car or Windows 10 until some serious issues, like the taking away of owner control are fixed!

And no, I don't wear a tin hat!