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Isd Lirf/Limc some greyed out textures problem.


HoratioWondersocks

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Hello All

I have both these add-on sceneries installed on my new W8 PC. My problem is this..... some static objects appear textureless ie some static vehicles and some buildings on the periphery of the airport. Its not many that appear this way ,but the fact that it is makes it even more irritating somehow.

Any ideas for a fix .It is some sort of textures missing problem ,but deleting and rein makes no difference.

I haven't noticed this before ,and I have had both these sceneries for some time (previously on my old xp setup)

If there is no fix they will have to go. A shame really as they are good sceneries and my new PC runs them (and all add-on airports so smoothly now.

 

Anyways

Much seasonal Ho!Noel,Frost and snow be upon you all.

Socks!

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Definitely missing textures. Or the textures may be present but misnamed (this sometimes happens when someone edits a texture after creating the scenery, check the texture folder for names with "copy" or "(1)" in the name).

 

Otherwise I would message the creator of the files.

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Without knowing exactly which addons you are using I can only guess.

 

I would suspect multiple copies of object libraries being the cause.

 

Some developers include object libraries in their addons, without including all of the textures used by objects in those libraries.

 

While this will have no affect on their addon it can cause problems at other airports.

 

FS only recognizes one instance of a library, regardless of where you are in the FS world.

 

If you have addons for airports "A" and "B" that both have the same object libraries FS will only use one of them.

 

If "A" is the library being used, and "A" only includes textures for objects used at "A", and "B" uses different objects from the same library, those objects at "B" will appear without textures.

 

One such developer who is guilty of this behavior is FRF, who also uses a lot of objects that were originally used by a developer of Italian airports.

 

You might look through the folders for those airports and any FRF addons you have for files with common names. One thing that FRF did was add the "library_" prefix to the object libraries in his addons. Note that the file name has no impact on this issue, it is what is inside the file that counts.

 

The cause of your issue might lie elsewhere, as I said, without knowing which addon...

 

 

peace,

the Bean

WWOD---What Would Opa Do? Farewell, my freind (sp)

 

Never argue with idiots.

They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

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Forgot to add to the above post, if you do find duplicates you can delete one and copy the textures used to the folder of the copy you keep.

 

Model Converter X can be used to see what textures are used by a library. Load the library into MCX and create an object report. This will list all textures used by that library.

 

Another useful tool is WinMerge, which is a file comparison tool.

 

You can use WinMerge to quickly compare 2 files and see if the are exact duplicates, even if they have different file names.

 

IMO MCX and WinMerge need to be in every simmers program arsenal, I use them all of the time.

 

peace,

the Bean

WWOD---What Would Opa Do? Farewell, my freind (sp)

 

Never argue with idiots.

They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

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In my AddOn Scenery folder under FS9 I have several library folders with each having a scenery, texture, and in some cases an mdl folder.

 

Is there any procedure to decompile and recompile problematic scenery .bgl files to use these shared library files to avoid the problems described here?

 

Some of these folders I have are for Rwy12, E-Z Scenery, a Static Objects Library to place various add-on items as instructed, etc.

KMSP - Minnesota: Land of 10,000 Puddles

Support Team

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Without knowing exactly which addons you are using I can only guess.

 

I would suspect multiple copies of object libraries being the cause.

 

Some developers include object libraries in their addons, without including all of the textures used by objects in those libraries.

 

While this will have no affect on their addon it can cause problems at other airports.

 

FS only recognizes one instance of a library, regardless of where you are in the FS world.

 

If you have addons for airports "A" and "B" that both have the same object libraries FS will only use one of them.

 

If "A" is the library being used, and "A" only includes textures for objects used at "A", and "B" uses different objects from the same library, those objects at "B" will appear without textures.

 

One such developer who is guilty of this behavior is FRF, who also uses a lot of objects that were originally used by a developer of Italian airports.

 

You might look through the folders for those airports and any FRF addons you have for files with common names. One thing that FRF did was add the "library_" prefix to the object libraries in his addons. Note that the file name has no impact on this issue, it is what is inside the file that counts.

 

The cause of your issue might lie elsewhere, as I said, without knowing which addon...

 

 

peace,

the Bean

 

Thanks Bean

I am not sure I understand some of the possible solutions I have been offered(although much appreciated).

I have simply deactivated the offending airports ISD Lirf and Limc plus two FRF airports Kjfk and Kmia .Interesting that you mention Italian and FRF as possible problems .

I will check for replacements for these airports. I don't mind losing the FRF offerings , but the ISD Lirf and Limc were very good (apart from those missing textures) .I do have one more ISD airport LIPZ which is fine (no missing/greyed out textures.

 

Anyways

Cheers Andy

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Is there any procedure to decompile and recompile problematic scenery .bgl files to use these shared library files to avoid the problems described here?

 

In short, no.

 

The way that FS handles libraries is hard coded into the scenery engine and the only way to prevent this problem is to be diligent about not installing multiple copies of object libraries.

 

peace,

the Bean

WWOD---What Would Opa Do? Farewell, my freind (sp)

 

Never argue with idiots.

They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

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I have simply deactivated the offending airports ISD Lirf and Limc plus two FRF airports Kjfk and Kmia.

 

Have you checked the ISD airports after deactivating the FRF addons?

 

If you tell me exactly which addons you are using (file names and where you got them) I can look at them and help you fix them.

 

peace,

the Bean

WWOD---What Would Opa Do? Farewell, my freind (sp)

 

Never argue with idiots.

They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

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I looked into this a bit further.

 

isd_limc2005.zip contains a file named limc_object.bgl.

 

kjfkv7.zip contains a file named library_variousobject.bgl.

 

Both files are 820,206 bytes and were modified on Friday, January 13, 2006 at 2:50 PM.

 

The hour in your time stamp might be different.

 

WinMerge shows me that, except for the file name, the two files are identical.

 

While the ISD version includes all of the textures used by the library, except for one missing lightmap, the FRF version is missing some 32 textures.

 

I think you can activate all 4 scenery addons and move that file out of the JFK scenery folder, then test the Italian airports.

 

peace,

the Bean

WWOD---What Would Opa Do? Farewell, my freind (sp)

 

Never argue with idiots.

They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

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In short, no.

 

The way that FS handles libraries is hard coded into the scenery engine and the only way to prevent this problem is to be diligent about not installing multiple copies of object libraries.

 

peace,

the Bean

 

What I was referring to is changing the various airport scenery .bgls to point to the objects in the shared libraries like when using rwy12 libraries, not duplicate the library items themselves in each airport scenery.

KMSP - Minnesota: Land of 10,000 Puddles

Support Team

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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I looked into this a bit further.

 

isd_limc2005.zip contains a file named limc_object.bgl.

 

kjfkv7.zip contains a file named library_variousobject.bgl.

 

Both files are 820,206 bytes and were modified on Friday, January 13, 2006 at 2:50 PM.

 

The hour in your time stamp might be different.

 

WinMerge shows me that, except for the file name, the two files are identical.

 

While the ISD version includes all of the textures used by the library, except for one missing lightmap, the FRF version is missing some 32 textures.

 

I think you can activate all 4 scenery addons and move that file out of the JFK scenery folder, then test the Italian airports.

 

peace,

the Bean

 

 

 

Hello Again

Some progress...

Since removing the two FRF sceneries ,I have just rein LIMC (one of the offending airports with missing textures) I wasn't really expecting any change ,but lo! All textures have returned. The missing textures on the periphery of the airport I thought were buildings were in fact trees.

So that is the good news..

I did mention in one of my posts concerning this problem that I did have one ISD scenery that was showing all textures correctly (even when the others Limc Lirf were not)....LIPZ, however on a flight last night (essa-lipz) on just starting my descent into LIPZ I got a ctd , it may have been a coincidence (ctds very rare for me these days) but can't help thinking it was something to do with that airport scenery.

Anyways I use Pete Dowsons auto save utility ,so reloaded the flight to the point just before that ctd and sure enough ctd again.I then deactivated that scenery in the library ,again reloaded to the point just before ctd and this time no ctd.

So I am not sure what's occurring there.

As to the LIRF scenery (the other port with missing textures ) I am not actually sure I even installed this correctly as found the ISD installation instructions hard to understand (English translation ) so I may give that a miss.(unless there is some kind simmer who can tell me how I go about it correctly.

So in summary

LIMC now working correctly

LIPZ I am a bit suspicious of( due to ctd ,but that may have been coincidence)

LIRF I will leave out for the moment until I can fully understand the install I structions.

Overall....it does seem as though FRF sceneries may causing some sort of clash with the ISDs

 

Anyways that's were I am at for now.

Will try a flight into LIMC tonight to see if all functions correctly.

I will not bother with FRF sceneries (they are not a favourite of mine ,although freeware so won't knock)

 

 

Cheers Andy

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What I was referring to is changing the various airport scenery .bgls to point to the objects in the shared libraries like when using rwy12 libraries, not duplicate the library items themselves in each airport scenery.

 

Not sure I am following what you are asking.

 

The sim works the way the sim works and we cannot change that.

 

Object libraries contain the data required for FS to build the 3D model, and then texture it.

 

Each model has a unique number assigned to it, called the GUID.

 

Object libraries typically contain no data to place these objects anywhere.

 

FS keeps track of where these models are stored, by their GUID.

 

FS only keeps track of one instance of each GUID and will use that instance any time that GUID is called, anywhere in the world.

 

Scenery placement files tell FS "I want to place this GUID at this location, at this pitch, bank, heading, scale, elevation, and scenery density setting". These files no nothing about what the object actually is or where it is stored.

 

When FS reads the object placement file it scans the indexes until it finds the GUID, then it reads where the object 3D data is stored so it can read that data and render the object in the sim.

 

The challenge is that when we have multiple copies of an object library FS ignores all copies except one and uses that library regardless of where you are in the sim world.

 

You can be at an addon airport in China that has an object library in it's scenery folder. If FS has indexed another copy of that library in an addon scenery folder for an airport in Texas, FS will call on that copy for the 3D data (including what textures to use) even though you are in China.

 

Lastly, FS only looks at 2 places for scenery object textures.

 

One is ...\FSn\Texture. The second place is the texture folder paired with the scenery folder that contains the object library, not the placement data .bgl.

 

So when you are at the China airport FS is looking at the Texas airport for the textures called by that object library.

 

If the textures are not in either of those places the object will be rendered without textures.

 

peace,

the Bean

WWOD---What Would Opa Do? Farewell, my freind (sp)

 

Never argue with idiots.

They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

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Not sure I am following what you are asking.

 

The sim works the way the sim works and we cannot change that.

 

Object libraries contain the data required for FS to build the 3D model, and then texture it.

 

Each model has a unique number assigned to it, called the GUID.

 

Object libraries typically contain no data to place these objects anywhere.

 

FS keeps track of where these models are stored, by their GUID.

 

FS only keeps track of one instance of each GUID and will use that instance any time that GUID is called, anywhere in the world.

 

Scenery placement files tell FS "I want to place this GUID at this location, at this pitch, bank, heading, scale, elevation, and scenery density setting". These files no nothing about what the object actually is or where it is stored.

 

When FS reads the object placement file it scans the indexes until it finds the GUID, then it reads where the object 3D data is stored so it can read that data and render the object in the sim.

 

The challenge is that when we have multiple copies of an object library FS ignores all copies except one and uses that library regardless of where you are in the sim world.

 

You can be at an addon airport in China that has an object library in it's scenery folder. If FS has indexed another copy of that library in an addon scenery folder for an airport in Texas, FS will call on that copy for the 3D data (including what textures to use) even though you are in China.

 

Lastly, FS only looks at 2 places for scenery object textures.

 

One is ...\FSn\Texture. The second place is the texture folder paired with the scenery folder that contains the object library, not the placement data .bgl.

 

So when you are at the China airport FS is looking at the Texas airport for the textures called by that object library.

 

If the textures are not in either of those places the object will be rendered without textures.

 

peace,

the Bean

 

I follow. That's what I was referring to that object libraries should not be in individual add-on sceneries, just pointers to those objects (plus position parameters) via the GUID placed into those airport sceneries.

 

Thanks.

KMSP - Minnesota: Land of 10,000 Puddles

Support Team

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  • 8 months later...

Sorry about ressurecting this thread after 9 months.

 

Still a bit confused...

About the FRF sceneries, in their readme, it is suggested that missing textures can be avoided by copying their textures into FS9/Scenery. I tried that but it didn't work.

 

I have several of their airports installed, with lots of duplicate textures in their respective texture folders. How can I avoid that?

 

If I understand correctly, I could remove duplicate object libraries from all but one FRF airport (the one with highest priority)?

 

Regards.

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About the FRF sceneries, in their readme, it is suggested that missing textures can be avoided by copying their textures into FS9/Scenery. I tried that but it didn't work.

Is it possible that you missed some? FRF sceneries can be quite a mess when it comes to file management.

 

I have several of their airports installed, with lots of duplicate textures in their respective texture folders. How can I avoid that?

Not easily answered. Outside of wasted hard drive space there is no problem in having those duplicates. Also note that just because two files have the same name guarantees that they are identical images.

 

If I understand correctly, I could remove duplicate object libraries from all but one FRF airport (the one with highest priority)?

 

That would work, make sure you keep the latest file.

 

IIRC he has released different versions of libraries with the same file name.

 

Priority does not matter with object libraries, they can be in any active scenery folder and work OK.

 

peace

the Bean

WWOD---What Would Opa Do? Farewell, my freind (sp)

 

Never argue with idiots.

They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

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I had textures in their KMSP missing which I only got back by deactivating the other FRF airports I got.

 

So what I've done is this:

 

Created a folder 'FRFAirports', with a scenery & texture folder inside.

I then copied everything FRF inside those, overwriting what's there but making sure I kept the newest files.

I did get the missing KMSP textures back, and everything looks OK in the other airports as well.

 

Thanks for the help/explanations.

 

Regards.

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