Windows Updates; how necessary are they?

FSX used to run pretty good on my present system. as time has gone by, however, it has gotten worse. I realize that hardware failure can cause that sort of thing, but I really don't think I am having a hardware problem. Lately, I have been casting a suspicious look at all those Windows 7 updates. Recently, after running a Factory Recovery of my ASUS system, I was at the point of installing the drivers for my Brother Laser printer and could not get it to install. I tried everything. There is another little program that I always install and that one would not install either. No messages--the installation in both cases went so far and then just quit. I actually ran the Factory Recovery again and this time I only installed the SP1 from a DVD. Then everytbing installed normally. After that, I did all the Windows updates.

Since having that problem, I have wondered how all those Windows updates are affecting FSX. Since that is the only thing that has changed on my computer system, it seems logical to suspect something in the Windows updates may be causing some of the anomalies I have been seeing in FSX.

I was wondering how many of you do all the Windows updates that Microsoft offers.

All I can say is I've allowed every update deemed important for years if not decades and can't honestly say I've noticed any interference with anything. Driver updates from, say NVIDIA have caused me no end of trouble. — Bob

I am using an NVidia 560Ti. I have also suspected a problem with some of the new drivers from them. Like the ones that say they are also for Windows 8. What Nvidia driver are you currently using?

Given that 99.99% of problems reported in these and similar forums arise because the individual has done something to their system or setup, I think you have far more important knowledge-based issues to concern yourself with before worrying about Windows Updates.

I install all Windows updates with the exception of video card updates. That, I take full ownership of, and responsibility for.

If an update itself causes a problem with the FSX installation, then it should be simple enough to rollback to fix it. But in all my years I think there are maybe a handful of such updates that have been the genuine case - the .air file debacle from Adobe being a single rare example.

Conversely, failing to apply an important Windows Update has been a persistent cause of a system-wide failure.

I'm one of those who is very careful with Windows Updates, but they are not likely your biggest problem.

I do not run them in auto mode. When I get the notices, I view them, invariably allowing the "security" selections, NEVER allowing the "optional" (Bing and Windows Search are nearly malware in my opinion) and any other non-security, I click on the "more information" to read about it. If the patch is for technology I don't use, I leave it unchecked. While this may seem a bit retentive, five minutes once a month or so is all I need. An actively informed user relies less on other people and faulty technology to secure their system. As a result, I have not had a virus or malware take over my system in 15 years despite not using an anti-virus program.

There are no silver bullets which can protect you from everything should you choose to live a risky life style by clicking on and installing everything you see. Crackers are smarter than programs and an informed user who manages risk is smarter than crackers and programs.

With all that said, I'm not convinced there have been any updates that target games or FS, but the above no-nos I believe do negatively affect system performance while not returning a strong enough benefit to justify running them.

There are plenty of other malware and poor FSX user options which are more likely the trouble makers for 99.9% of FSX users.

Keeping ALL your drivers updated (even your chipset) is important, but there is not a strong case that onboard sound adapters are inherently inferior to add-on cards unless you need features not available on the MB such as surround sound or multi-channel hard disk recording.

-Pv-

I am using an NVidia 560Ti. I have also suspected a problem with some of the new drivers from them. Like the ones that say they are also for Windows 8. What Nvidia driver are you currently using?

Currently running 344.75 driving a GTX 550i on two 24" BenQ monitors.

I'm one of those who is very careful with Windows Updates, but they are not likely your biggest problem.

 

I do not run them in auto mode. When I get the notices, I view them, invariably allowing the "security" selections, NEVER allowing the "optional" (Bing and Windows Search are nearly malware in my opinion) and any other non-security, I click on the "more information" to read about it. If the patch is for technology I don't use, I leave it unchecked. While this may seem a bit retentive, five minutes once a month or so is all I need. An actively informed user relies less on other people and faulty technology to secure their system. As a result, I have not had a virus or malware take over my system in 15 years despite not using an anti-virus program.

 

There are no silver bullets which can protect you from everything should you choose to live a risky life style by clicking on and installing everything you see. Crackers are smarter than programs and an informed user who manages risk is smarter than crackers and programs.

 

With all that said, I'm not convinced there have been any updates that target games or FS, but the above no-nos I believe do negatively affect system performance while not returning a strong enough benefit to justify running them.

 

There are plenty of other malware and poor FSX user options which are more likely the trouble makers for 99.9% of FSX users.

 

Keeping ALL your drivers updated (even your chipset) is important, but there is not a strong case that onboard sound adapters are inherently inferior to add-on cards unless you need features not available on the MB such as surround sound or multi-channel hard disk recording.

-Pv-

That last paragraph of yours is an eye opener. When FS9 first came out I had a decent system with a pretty good Graphics card. I was having problems with ATC whenever I had "Real World Weather" downloaded. I went online to ask for advice and someone asked what kind of sound card I was using and I had to ask no further questions. I felt stupid because I hadn't thought of my lack of dedicated sound card. I went out and bought a SoundBlaster and FS9 ran beautifully on my sytem after that. The sound card took over the job of sound lightening the load on my main processor. The truth is, my current system ran FSX fairly well and much better than it does now with my Nvidia card as long as I didn't download RWW. I have recovered my system several times so I could get a truly fresh install of FSX--without any addons. Actually, I only have the Level-D 767 as an addon, now.

Currently running 344.75 driving a GTX 550i on two 24" BenQ monitors.

That's what I have been using. I have kept most of the older drivers and have tried switching back to an older driver but it never makes any improvement. I have this philosophy about programs and hardware that if they worked great with driver 1.0, driver 2.0 should not make anything run better. Possibly a newer driver could add more features but if FSX was running just fine with Nvidia driver 301.42, then it should still run just fine with the same driver. Of course, if I changed something, then THAT change would be the culprit. With a fresh install of FSX and with only the FSX service packs installed, it should still be running as smoothly as ever. Ahhh, there's the rub: it isn't. I have even considered memory problems. I have run memtest86 for more than 18 hours and found no problems. But, I'm not an expert! In a couple months, if I haven't resolved the problem, I'm going to take it to the shop and have them run diagnostics on it.

I'm using MB sound. As far as I can tell, my quality of play is as good as any other claims I've seen posted at my CPU speed. I have used many different sound card (including SB) onboard and MB vendors in the past and my experience is if the MB is not a budget model, and the onboard sound is currently supported and recent technology, then there are plenty of other factors which have a much higher impact on FSX. Needless to say, if the onboard sound driver is not up to date, it WILL have a negative impact on FS regardless of the manufacturer.

-Pv-

Speaking of on-board sound vs. dedicated cards; I put up with various sound issues, most annoying of which was a constant pulsing most noticeable with FSX. I switched between the on-board device and an older SoundBlaster card with no improvement either way. Recently I thought I'd try a newer card to see if that would help. I put in an ASUS Xonar DGX and WOW did it make a difference! No more pulsing and I suddenly heard details I had never heard before. Well worth the $45. In my case at least. Might not make the least bit of difference to anyone else. — Bob

Hi Bob,

That ASUS card sounds promising. Especially with that $45 price. The only thing I have to do is take my ASUS pc over to the Geek Squad to confirm that there will be room next to my NVidia 560. The video card is sort of fat and they weren't sure that they could fit it in. But they said there was no problem putting that in. Now, I have to see if a sound card will even fit next to it.

Thanks for the info.

I have to say that I am extremely wary of allowing Microsoft - or anyone, put anything on any of my PCs without my full knowledge of exactly why they are doing so. I run 4 PC's at work and several at home. Only ONE PC at work and ONE PC at home is connected to the internet - and both now have Updates disabled.

just for the record, at work I am still running one PC on Windows 2000. It is as fast and as stable as the day I bought it! I have NEVER run MS Updates because it isn't connected to the internet. Maybe one day I could run into problems with finding suitable drivers for a new printer - but until then I have absolutely no reason to stop using it - It is FAST and STABLE. We have one other PC on XP and two others on Windows 7. Two of them still 'fly', - they are fast and stable but the one connected to the internet (Win 7) is becoming a slow dog! All it is used for is email, locating customers premises via Google-Earth, the occasional YouTube, oh, and looking at the odd business website but it got slower and slower until I turned off the Windows updates. This was prompted by finding Google-Earth stopped working immediately after a particular Windows Update with the message that the graphics card was not suitable. It had been suitable UNTIL the Windows update, though!! Having to buying a graphics card solved the issue. Thank you Microsoft !!!!!!!!

At home - I have three XP systems and two Win 7 systems - one, a 32 bit Laptop and the other, a 64 bit workstation - (for FlightSim etc ), plus a Win 98 Edition 2. They are all as fast as the day they were bought - except this laptop I'm using now which is the ONLY PC that can connect to the internet. Again, I turned off Windows Updates when I started to notice a distinct slowing down.

Call me cynical if you like - but if I was making a dammed good living by selling operating systems - and I had access to the inside of people's computers, I might just be tempted to ad a bit of code to some updates that maybe caused a few problems - perhaps just enough problems to tempt people to buy a new computer with the new operating system I had recently launched. Now I'm not accusing anyone of doing this. I'm not even suggesting anyone has done this. I'm just looking at MY evidence - viz NOT connected for Updates. NO problems versus Connected for updates and has problems.

I have very recently started getting a notice from Microsoft telling me that my operating system on this Laptop is not genuine. Hmmm I know for CERTAIN that it IS a genuine system. BUT, I am certainly NOT going to allow a connection to Microsoft to verify that it is genuine - they may just ping out something that somehow disables my laptop - forcing me to buy yet another of their operating systems!!!!

Before you all ask - Paid-for AVG Antivirus is on both internet PC's and the ONLY program updates I HAVE to download are the "Adobe Flash" for YouTube. I also regularly Defrag ALL computers and use CC Cleaner to clear out any Temp files and other rubbish that inevitably accumulates when running numerous applications.

I'd be interested to hear anyone's comments on my concerns - positive or negative.

Keep Flying

Malcolm.

Malcom,

You can see from my above post I'm a bit careful about updates, but not as much as you. I, like you have owned and operated a lot of machines at various locations with the same operating systems. I have yet to see a "security update" do any harm to a machine and would not operate ANY computer online without them. Even Apple had to introduce their first ever auto update a few days ago.

I would be concerned about non-genuine reports. It might be a good idea to phone MS licensing with your disk and license number handy. I bet they can clear this up without using an auto update to intrude on your privacy. Their licensing people are friendly and helpful and have cleared up every issue I have had. One of the things Windows is sensitive to is HD swaps. I love my Linux Fedora which just keeps on ticking.

Your comment about updating your video to use Google Earth is interesting. This is indeed what drives most computer hardware and driver purchases by customers- the desire to use more advanced software. It's likely before your GE problem, your GCard's Open GL driver was getting out of date. GE updates itself automatically, so it might have been THAT update which killed GE. Maybe your card at the time could not be updated to current OGL? Hard to guess.

Anyway, to make a long story shorter, machines NOT on the Inet can get by nearly forever without updates. I myself instead of turning updates full auto or off, cheery pick and usually only allow "security" updates with "notify but do not install" mode. I NEVER let MS update drivers which are usually WAY behind. I get them all direct from the hardware vendors.

I avoid the "optional" MS freeware junk which is usually where the system takes a hit.

-Pv-

Malcolm, consider if you will that your attitude to updates was the possible cause of the 'something' that caused the issue you suffered.

MS does not reveal all details of all updates it offers because some are system specific, some are part of revisions to core code and therefore proprietary, while many are fixes for vulnerabilities that others exploit to take control, insert malware or otherwise mess with your system.

The irony in the case you document is that the reason that your system gave you a warning about an unsuitable card probably had more to do with not having updated the system drivers, graphics drivers or mobo drivers that would have correctly identified the suitability of what you already had to the software that was expecting to see an update trail. Exactly as Pvarn says.

Basically if you don't trust Microsoft (within limitations of course) then you have no place running a Windows-based operating system and should be using a Mac.

Because we all know how trustworthy Apple are.

PVarn, Many thanks for your comments and advice. I do value an "alternative" view - find it helps to stop the 'blinkers' slipping down over my eyes - and giving me a much wider perspective.

>>> One of the things Windows is sensitive to is HD swaps.

I think you may have something here! I put in a new hard drive in this laptop a few months ago after I got a warning that it was likely to fail. I did just wonder if that had anything to do with the message. Thanks for the confirmation, and the suggestions, particularly the "Cherry Picking" - that sounds like a good alternative route.

All the best.

Malcolm

just for the record, at work I am still running one PC on Windows 2000. It is as fast and as stable as the day I bought it! I have NEVER run MS Updates because it isn't connected to the internet. Maybe one day I could run into problems with finding suitable drivers for a new printer - but until then I have absolutely no reason to stop using it - It is FAST and STABLE. We have one other PC on XP and two others on Windows 7. Two of them still 'fly', - they are fast and stable but the one connected to the internet (Win 7) is becoming a slow dog! All it is used for is email, locating customers premises via Google-Earth, the occasional YouTube, oh, and looking at the odd business website but it got slower and slower until I turned off the Windows updates. This was prompted by finding Google-Earth stopped working immediately after a particular Windows Update with the message that the graphics card was not suitable. It had been suitable UNTIL the Windows update, though!! Having to buying a graphics card solved the issue. Thank you Microsoft !!!!!!!!

That was most likely caused by a driver update, which would have originated with the video card manufacturer, not Microsoft. I never install GPU driver updates through Windows Update, and go straight to the source (ie. AMD, Nvidia or Intel). The drivers on Windows update are often outdated too.

I have very recently started getting a notice from Microsoft telling me that my operating system on this Laptop is not genuine. Hmmm I know for CERTAIN that it IS a genuine system. BUT, I am certainly NOT going to allow a connection to Microsoft to verify that it is genuine - they may just ping out something that somehow disables my laptop - forcing me to buy yet another of their operating systems!!!!

Microsoft may not be perfect, but they aren't malicious. If you are having activation problems, call them. Or just let Windows connect.

Any Windows computer that is connected to the Internet should at least be getting security updates. Anti-virus programs are far from infallible and the best course is to fix the underlying security holes malicious software target.

Basically if you don't trust Microsoft (within limitations of course) then you have no place running a Windows-based operating system and should be using a Mac.

 

Because we all know how trustworthy Apple are.

If one can't trust Microsoft, the best course would be to move to Linux. At least there you can review the source code for just about everything yourself (proprietary GPU drivers being one major exception).

Malcott,

Thank you for taking the time to comment and reply. As I said to PVarn, I do value hearing alternative views and suggestions other than my own, probably dogmatic ideas.

The computer which had to have a new graphics card was indeed around 3 years old - maybe more. In computer terms it is possibly getting on for 'geriatric', but it worked ok (until the update) and still works ok now with the new card, but rather more slowly than it used to. I'm going to consider allowing it to Update - and then see what happens! The results could be interesting

You could well be correct when you suggest that the Microsoft embedded code, not seeing regular updates could be assuming that I'm running a pirate version of the operating system (which I most definitely am NOT) and is asking me to prove that the installation is genuine. I am going to have to make some 'phone calls to Microsoft to clear this up - and also to make certain it is not some sneaky trojan that has crept in somehow without AVG being aware.

>>> Basically if you don't trust Microsoft (within limitations of course) then you have no place running a Windows-based operating system and should be using a Mac.

How right you are!! Unfortunately, over the many years, I've sunk in over my head with the Microsoft operating system. Many of the specialist programs I use both at home and at work are only 'Windows' based. Some of them I wrote myself in Visual Basic (produced by Microsoft specifically only for Windows). I have realised too late that I should have spent the time learning C, which can be used on other platforms, instead of Visual Basic.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe MS Flight Sim will only work on a Mac through a "Windows Emulator"??? If that is indeed the case, would not the sim be slowed down slightly since it has to operate through an interpreter??

Many thanks for your comments and suggestions.

kind regards - keep flying!

Malcolm

Malcott,You could well be correct when you suggest that the Microsoft embedded code, not seeing regular updates could be assuming that I'm running a pirate version of the operating system (which I most definitely am NOT) and is asking me to prove that the installation is genuine. I am going to have to make some 'phone calls to Microsoft to clear this up - and also to make certain it is not some sneaky trojan that has crept in somehow without AVG being aware

The biggest reason Windows activation will think it isn't genuine is from hardware changes, which can sometimes be triggered by driver updates or changes. Microsoft's product activation works by looking at the hardware that is installed, with the idea of discouraging people from installing the same licence on multiple machines. If something changes, it thinks it could possibly have been installed elsewhere and will ask to be re-activated. Often just activating over the Internet will work, but if it doesn't, a quick call to the Microsoft activation number will sort it out.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe MS Flight Sim will only work on a Mac through a "Windows Emulator"??? If that is indeed the case, would not the sim be slowed down slightly since it has to operate through an interpreter??

To run FSX, you would need either an emulator (which will take a performance hit) or Apple's Boot Camp. However, both of these still require running Windows. A more ideal solution if you were to switch to a Mac would be to run either X-Plane or Flightgear as they run natively.