Latest " Hanger flying" installment scares me...

[N2984J]

Did anyone beside me read the latest installment of "Hanger flying" and think "This isnt adventure, this is a series of really stupid mistakes and omissions followed by a great save by our ATC system"? Proper flight planning and the use of at least alittle weather info readiliy availible could help lower our sky high insurance rates and NTSB reports. What do you think?

[b_bonnett]

I agree with you on this one. What sort of idiot doesn't check the weather before they go flying. Or the gas before the return trip? Thats one person I wouldn't fly with ...

Blair.

[Simon Evans]

Yep, agree here too...

The pilots heart attacks and subsequent grounding probably saved lives.

"Adventure = Foolish state of unpreparedness..."



Simon Evans

[JarJarBlinks]

Yes, maby you think it is stupid; but have you ever done somthing stupid and have somthing result? I would put my money that even Todd has not checked the weather and gas before....

Everyone makes mistakes, this is history. Do you want to repeat history? Think of 10 year old kids fascinated by this story, that someday in their flying future, gets their lives saved by these stories?
--------------------
Steve

"Ladies and Gentelmen, we just discovered an exception to the rule that what goes up must come down, the landing gear"

[b_bonnett]

You have a point there Steve, it could influence young children later on...
But shouldn't we be worrying about the fact that, training for his PPL, this guy didn't have "always check weather ... always check gas" etc. drilled into him? Simon is right, in this case, the heart attacks were lucky!

Blair.

[cbickel]

Sure, it could influence some young person somehow, but to me, the way it is written is not the way to make a lesson out of it. While I was reading it I got the impression that the author was glorifying brushes with death, in fact just about stating that in the beginning, about finding adventure and otherwise staying "at home where it's safe and hide in bed."

Yes, I have done some stupid stuff, but never intentionally, and I LEARNED from my mistakes. I'm glad to see that there was a follow-up article posted that included references to possible FAR violations, and I could probably add a few more to the list. There is a quote I've heard that says "the regulations are written in blood," and while I'm glad they "got away with it" this time, they exhibited some of the hazardous attitudes that will inevitably lead to an accident. While this story is a perfect example of what not to do, it is written in the wrong way to express that. Fly safe,

Chris

[toddrf]

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-01 AT 09:01AM (EDT)[/font][p][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-01 AT 08:51 AM (EDT)[/font]

Nope, Steve, you are wrong. I have never failed to check the gas. Really. The only time I don't check weather is when I am local, closed traffic or just ten out to the west practice area.

Now what have I done:

Just last week I flew up to 10G to work and I left MPP parked overnight. The tie down was on a slope and I though nothing of it. I arrived at the airport at 0730, preflighted and noticed some fuel leaking on the down angled left wing, from the vent. There was a three gallon difference between left and right which will happen due to the open fuel system in the Cessna.

I climbed in, a started up and I taxied for take off. As I was climbing out I looked down and noticed the FBO operator arriving at work, I waited til he entered the building and then called on the comm "Hey Jim, do I owe you anything for the tie down?"

"No, nothing, but check you fuel selector, I switched it off the right tank last night because of the fuel vent."

I looked down, and there plainly was the fuel selector turned off on the right tank. Completely missed that. Why? Because up til that point, I never turned it off of both, AND my GUMPS check was always in preparation for landing.

Lesson Learned. GUMPS works very well prior to takeoff as well. It is now part of my repetroir. A lot of people do notmess with older Cessna fuel selectors partly out of ju ju and partly because they are afraid of the valve being old and if it works on dual feed, why ever change it unless it is for the last time to "off" prior to impact.

Understand that I had 18 gallons of fuel in the left tank and I had 1 hour of flying ahead. I try to refuel every two hours in MPP since that is all my backside can handle. BUT, had I been fat dumb and happy heading for California, I could have run out of gas over say Illinois thinking I was pushing it out to 3 hours and since MPP burns a consistent 7.5 an hour, well, you get the picture.

I have also landed with almost no gas. Hence the two hour rule. That was on a night, long cross country, as a student PPL student no less, over the most desolate parts of the East, Southern Ohio and Northern Kentucky and because I left so late there was nobody open for gas. I pushed the range of the Cherokee that night and it was only by the grace of God and some hellacious tailwinds that I didn't end up on HWY 50. Very stupid but something that a 35 hour student might do.

Now for some real fun, read the latest Sport Aviation, EAA, article on the review of the new Zenair. The factory demo pilot and the reviewer both missed the fact that there was 20 gallons in one tank and 5 in the other. A sort of weight and balance issue. The kicker is that they took off like that and then reported it.

Steve, I am so compulsive about fuel that I actually dipstick my tanks for volumes unless I just topped them off and sniff more gas than I should to make certain it is gas. Blue be damned I wan't to smell volatile hydrocarbons. Now if I can just stay with the check list and check the basics.

Todd :-wave

PS: I just read the item refered to. Understand that fog can occur VERY suddenly. I had that lesson at hour 45 as a PPL student and have never forgotten it. I watched from 10 miles as a clear airfield very rapidly became a fogged in airfield and I landed in the spaces in between. Good reason to get a brief and understand fog and temp/dewpoints. That might well have been an honest mistake on this guy's part.

heart attacks can happen out of nowhere. Actually it is thought that a fair number of crashes occuring with aircraft on a stabilized final are due to heart attacks.

Now the fuel. My question is, this guy is flying single engine over open water. Obviously a risky undertaking. I would hope that fuel would be a foremost consideration on his mind. I can't fault him, it was weather that screwed him, but once again, he is flying single engine over open water, he should be hypercompulsive about a lot of issues.

All I can say, along with "There by the grace of God go I..." is this just illustrates my point that if available, one should get gas EVERY time the wheels touch pavement, unless that is part of a series of local touch and goes; AND a safe pilot should spend the first 20 hours flying his airplane determining the absolute, unleaned, max cruise power, fuel burn rate, with take-offs and landings included (Which in MPP is 8.75 gals per hour) and never fly that airplane farther than you can go and still have an hour of fuel remaining. VFR, IFR I don't care. If you have to push the range, then by golly you bettered be doing fuel and weather checks to make certain you have alternates.

I actually appreciated this story.

MPP holds 36 gals useable fuel, Tell me how far I can plan on going and how far I am willing to take her, giventhe above criteria.

Oh, last issue, If one finds oneself in the situation that this guy did, and he doesn't cover it, but one can eak out a lot of gas from nowhere if one understands what the Red knob is for, the EGT gauge and the LD curves. Extra altitude also helps as at least one Air Transat Airbus crew can attest.

For what it is worth.

[alastairmonk]

"MPP holds 36 gals useable fuel, Tell me how far I can plan on going and how far I am willing to take her, given the above criteria."


Well, by my reckoning, if you allow 8.75 gals for that final hour, this leaves you 36 - 8.75 = 27.25 gals "flyable" fuel.

At 8.75 gals/hr this would give you just over 3 hrs flying time.

Is this the answer you're looking for ?

Cheers,

http://www.flightsim.com/dcforum/Use...d85138992a.jpg

[toddrf]

It was rhetorical, but indeed I plan on 3 hours max in MPP when starting with full bags of gas.

Todd :-wave

[helo_av8or]

The 172's that we use at OSU will burn about 8.5 per hour leaned out. Under certain conditions, they can burn as much as 9.7. therefore, whenever I am planning a cross country, I always bank on 10 gallons per hour. This accomplishes two purposes. First, it allows for easy fuel figuring. Second, it provides a margin of safety. This pleases most instructors around here, safety concerns that is. However, occasionally I come across one who wants to know "EXACTLY" how much fuel that I will have when I land. I oblige those that ask with exact figures as shown by the Information Manual, but I still use my "10 an hour" rule when planning fuel stops.

Jeff
________________________________________
http://flightsimmers.net/helipad/fs2...ry/cartman.gif
"No Kitty, Bad Kitty!"