I got spanked today on Vatsim

[Cputters]

Not sure what the states do but if you feel like flying in Australia and staying up late (for you) then Wednesday nights is newbie night on Vatpac.

The controllers talk you through everything and help you work it out. They're also prepared for mistakes so won't lose their temper's.

Good luck and stick with it.

[coabill]

Hey thanks, I just found a new navigation site thanks to you I didn't even know was out there.. This VFR site is awsome especially I track routes & stuff.. Awsome.. Thanks again.. VFR page is cool.. Especially when I scoot on down to low IFR & check out my highway in the sky & like I said track some of my routes & if I ever need to move routes around I know which ones to use to move around T-Storms.. I'm always flying IFR but I'm flying for United on FSX so I deffantly fly IFR all the time... I'll have to check out Vatsim sometime..

How is Vatsim for doing IFR style flights like I do.. Because my understanding is sometimes you only have a certain number of controllers even online.. I go from IAH-MCO & use to getting passed on from one center to another once you get away from the airport is there enough controllers to go the whole flight & arriving destination too ?

[jomni]

No there will not be enough controllers. When you're out of controlled airspace, communication protocol should adhere to real-life procedures. This means you switch to the general comms channel and annouce your intentions (when taxiing, taking-off, and landing) so that anyone in the area knows what you plan to do and stay out of the way. They should be telling you what they're doing as well (in theory).

[andyjohnston]

Way back in the FS-2004 days, I used to fly on a site called... e-sky? Something like that. When I filed my plan, I would be able to include a little note saying I was new and to be patient with me.

[1234plane]

When flying in ZLA airspace and you want to verify the route you will want to look for the TEC routes here:
http://laartcc.org/tecroutesx.php
Type in the airport codes, and aircraft class (look it up here: http://laartcc.org/old/tec/aircraftclass.htm). Then look up the route. You will likely have many options, so look at the comments. If it says like "LAX east ops," you will probably not want that one unless you are flying late at night. The one with no comments is usually the correct one. If you are unsure, feel free to ask. The altitude will usually be something like 40 or higher ones like 120, just add 00 after it as they are in thousands. For other routes you can go to the following: http://flightaware.com/analysis/route.rvt or http://www.simroutes.com/fb2/showplans.aspx. For simroutes, look in the comments to make sure it is the right one.
Those are helpful when flying from maybe KSNA to KDFW. As for altitudes make sure it is the following west=even numbers (10,000, FL180) east=odd numbers (11,00 FL190). Now that you should have your route all ready you have to, going IFR or VFR, call for clearance.

It will likely go like this when flying IFR (we are at KLAX), "N712SX ready to copy IFR to ____," then the controller says "N712SX clearance is on request standby." Then you will have to wait a little bit, then he calls again, "N712SX cleared to the ____ airport, SLI5 departure, radar vectors to SLI then as filed, maintain 5000, expect 9000 5 minutes after departure, departure freq is ___.___ squawk ____." Then you read back what you just heard so "N712SX is cleared to the ____ airport, SLI5, radar vectors SLI then as filed, maintain 5000, expect 9000 five minutes after departure, dep freq ___.___, squawk ____ ." Or you just read back the squawk code, but I prefer to read back the whole clearance. Then the controller says "N712SX your readback is correct, expect rwy 25L for dep, advise when ready to taxi." You respond with "expect 25L, will call for taxi, N712SX." Then call for taxi, "N712SX is ready to taxi to 25L." Controllers response, "N712SX taxi to 25L via Alpha Foxtrot, wind ___ at ___ altimeter ____." You say "25L via A F, we copy the weather."
Then you taxi, if you don't know where you are going, you can go to http://www.airnav.com/airports/ and type in the airport code, the scroll down and find the grey chart. Asking for progressive taxi is not the best as the controller may be busy with other aircraft. Now that you are close to the rwy you say "N712SX is at rwy 25L ready for takeoff," N712SX wind ___ at __ cleared for takeoff," Then you takeoff and you fly the SLI5 departure procedure. He said radar vectors, so if another controller is online, you will be told heading to that VOR. If the dep freq is the unicom 122.800, you can usually just fly the route after the controller says "N712SX, freq change is approve," (make sure to respond). Then once you reach the VOR you where vectored to (SLI is our example) then you just continue on your filed route, following the altitude you where cleared for or are to to be at. For charts, scroll down to the bottom at airnav and just follow what they say... Please note, the example above was just meant to be an example and may not be a correct route, I am aware of this, it was simply meant to be an example of what you might hear on the network when you are departing.

For more information on sid/stars (departure and arrival procedure) see these links of a series of videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ7c-...ure=plpp_video and look at the related video on the side for part 2 and 3 and 4... Now really all you have to do is do what the controller says and you can assume you will fly your route perfectly...
See you in the skies soon!
Sean

[srgalahad]

Sorry you had a bad experience, although it seems to be improving.

Every time I read of one of these misadventures it reminds me how the flight-sim world has perpetrated a cruel hoax on those who want to fly. Microsoft (and others), in the name of sales, marketed FS software with the image that "for $40, some hardware and a few hours of learning, you too can be like a real pilot!" Consider that to even fly a C-150 solo takes hours of ground school, several hundred $ of flight instruction and a LOT of study.

To then move on to a PPL, a complex-aircraft endorsement and an Instrument Rating takes much much more of ALL the above. For the instrument rating alone a pilot must, prior to applying for the rating and in addition to the flight training, :

(3) Receive and log ground training from an authorized instructor or accomplish a home-study course of training on the aeronautical knowledge areas of paragraph (b) of this section that apply to the instrument rating sought;

(4) Receive a logbook or training record endorsement from an authorized instructor certifying that the person is prepared to take the required knowledge test;


-Part (b) states:
(b) Aeronautical knowledge. A person who applies for an instrument rating must have received and logged ground training from an authorized instructor or accomplished a home-study course on the following aeronautical knowledge areas that apply to the instrument rating sought:
(1) Federal Aviation Regulations of this chapter that apply to flight operations under IFR;
(2) Appropriate information that applies to flight operations under IFR in the “Aeronautical Information Manual;”

(3) Air traffic control system and procedures for instrument flight operations;
(4) IFR navigation and approaches by use of navigation systems;
(5) Use of IFR en route and instrument approach procedure charts;

(6) Procurement and use of aviation weather reports and forecasts and the elements of forecasting weather trends based on that information and personal observation of weather conditions;
(7) Safe and efficient operation of aircraft under instrument flight rules and conditions;

(8) Recognition of critical weather situations and windshear avoidance;
(9) Aeronautical decision making and judgment; and...
F.A.R. Part 61 http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....0.1.1.2.2.1.4

Note that (2, 3 & 4) include things like understanding of VORs, NDBs, airspace and it's rules, constantly-changing procedures, and being able to roll them all out on demand.

OK, so that's a lot. Exactly!! there is a lot to learn before venturing out as PIC at any level. However, when one is going to go out in public (in the flight-sim sense) a failure to be prepared is often going to lead to a spanking.

I know it's human nature to seek relatively instant gratification and to put off all that 'book-larnin'" as a PITA ("I can learn as I go by the seat of my pants") but one of the things that makes a pilot different than the Corolla driver next to you on the street is that sheer amount of knowledge acquired BEFORE he/she gets behind the wheel.

That's not to say we can't enjoy the fun of FS and go on to bigger and better things. We just have to accept that, contrary to the advertising, (even simulated) flying at an advanced level takes more work than a quick read of the online tutorial, a few "How-to" posts online and a casual concept of a few of the systems that come into play. Part of the skill-set is knowing how and why things work even though they may not always be required.

If it seems like too much work, then the point is missed... the more we know, the better we are. As grandpappy used to say: "the only thing that doesn't take training is failure".

BTW, I don't do VATSIM etc. It's a pretty good institution, but after 30 years as a real-world controller and pilot I don't miss it. I will say, however, that the simulated ATC world often falls prey to the same delusions of grandeur (meant in a nice way)... the focus is on manning the big, hot, complex places and pushing tin at the peak rate. Rarely have I seen the small VFR or VFR/IFR units manned but that's where we learn so we can move upward and where it's easier to learn to fly in that complex world.

Rob

[angels355]

Sean and Rob,

Thanks for the excellent posts.

Sean, that is outstanding information. I've had a little online sim world instruction in that area, and also formal instruction. It's good that there's a way to practice it on the simulator. This illustrates how difficult it is.

Ground and taxiing procedures are critical to the FAA in recent years because of the many horrible accidents, they have a course on it.

BTW KLAX is one of the most difficult to fly in and out of, I would say that KORD might be the worst for congestion, I'd sat that the NY area is just one big carpet of Class B airspace. Any way, KLAX, probably KORD also, and a list of others are so difficult, congested, and demanding to fly in, that student pilots are not allowed to fly in their airspace, unless signed off by an instructor. Otherwise it's private pilots only. So it's no surprise that it is difficult for a new sim pilot.

Rob, technology advances so fast that things change, I was wondering if the Clearance Delivery situation has improved? That is, not long ago, ATC would give Clearance Delivery, and you would have about five minutes to get rolling and airborne unless you spoke up for yourself and asked for more time. I was instructed to say no, just say no to ATC, and ask for more time as there was one serious accident in which a private jet departed into heavy low overcast before his instruments even had time to spin up, in the clouds he flipped over and went into the ground. Clearance Delivery used to be by nearby telephone, how is it done now, cell phone and radio? It seems to me that it would be ideal if you were sitting in the pilot's seat, all instruments and checklists ready to go, and you get Clearance Delivery right there where you're sitting.

I think MS FS is a lot better than you might give it credit for, I flew about 50 hours with my father who was a former Navy pilot, and I didn't learn nearly as much as when I started flying FS. And I'm a good student, started studying aerodynamics when I was 7, calculating an estimate of overall drag on aircraft for example. Having previous experience flying I started out on Fly2K with the King Air 200 naturally, I wasn't one of those guys that starts with airliners. Two weeks later was flying the Raytheon biz jet on my first flight around the world, then in the KA 200, then in Rob Young's Lear 35. Then onto what was the sublime perfection of the FS98 737, and countless addons. I wanted to see the world so all my flights were around the world, have completed about 408, with several partially completed. Have flown Fly2K, Fly II, FS98 through FSX but relatively new to FSX. My father a pro engineer was asking me for advice on how various aircraft fly. I probably didn't mention how modest I am!

Now I am trying to study through several flight courses. I would like to go all the way to become a pro pilot, but due to difficult circumstances I am approaching it with a much more relaxed attitude, if I don't make it I will be less upset. My fallback plan/dream is to be a twin pilot and fly to Santa Barbara for vacations!